1 00:00:34,220 --> 00:00:08,950 [Music] 2 00:00:37,410 --> 00:00:34,230 good evening professor say good evening 3 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:37,420 hours wanted to say that I'm just 4 00:00:42,090 --> 00:00:39,370 excited about tonight's guests welcome 5 00:00:44,700 --> 00:00:42,100 to the show I'm Martin Wilshire host and 6 00:00:48,540 --> 00:00:44,710 like I said I'm super excited about our 7 00:00:50,250 --> 00:00:48,550 guest tonight professor Kevin Knuth and 8 00:00:53,069 --> 00:00:50,260 you know when people in the UFO 9 00:00:55,350 --> 00:00:53,079 community say why aren't scientists 10 00:00:59,490 --> 00:00:55,360 taking the UFO subject seriously in 11 00:01:03,389 --> 00:00:59,500 looking into it well there you go he is 12 00:01:05,550 --> 00:01:03,399 a well respected he's well respected as 13 00:01:07,620 --> 00:01:05,560 an associate professor in the department 14 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:07,630 of physics at the University of Albany 15 00:01:14,010 --> 00:01:11,890 and he is the editor in chief of the 16 00:01:16,710 --> 00:01:14,020 journal of entropy 17 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:16,720 he's a former NASA research scientist 18 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:19,450 having worked for years at NASA Ames 19 00:01:24,210 --> 00:01:22,090 Research Center and intelligent systems 20 00:01:26,510 --> 00:01:24,220 division designing artificial 21 00:01:29,820 --> 00:01:26,520 intelligence algorithms for 22 00:01:32,999 --> 00:01:29,830 Astrophysical data analysis is that 23 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:33,009 sciency enough for you all out there in 24 00:01:39,660 --> 00:01:37,450 the UFO community I think it is before 25 00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:39,670 we get started I do want to thank 26 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:42,070 everyone who supports the show I really 27 00:01:46,740 --> 00:01:43,990 do appreciate it a lot and without your 28 00:01:48,270 --> 00:01:46,750 help I could not go on so I really 29 00:01:50,819 --> 00:01:48,280 appreciate that and I appreciate every 30 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:50,829 single listener and if you are on the 31 00:01:57,030 --> 00:01:54,850 edge for supporting the show you can do 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:01:57,040 that for less than a cup of coffee only 33 00:02:02,429 --> 00:01:59,770 $2.00 a month over at patreon and the 34 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:02,439 links that are on our website podcast 35 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:05,890 UFO while you're there check out this 36 00:02:10,590 --> 00:02:09,250 week's great blog by our blogger he's 37 00:02:13,470 --> 00:02:10,600 done a great job for quite a while now 38 00:02:18,660 --> 00:02:13,480 Charles leer and the title of that one 39 00:02:20,460 --> 00:02:18,670 is called UFOs and humanoids in 1973 we 40 00:02:24,479 --> 00:02:20,470 got there was some strange cases that 41 00:02:27,780 --> 00:02:24,489 year including the Pascagoula case and 42 00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:27,790 so dude go and check that out yes next 43 00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:31,120 week I do want to say it is all about 44 00:02:35,460 --> 00:02:33,190 you the listener 45 00:02:37,170 --> 00:02:35,470 it's a call-in show we're making an 46 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:37,180 experiment we're gonna try that out 47 00:02:42,870 --> 00:02:40,810 and I know I can't talk for two hours we 48 00:02:44,850 --> 00:02:42,880 are going to have race over here at kg 49 00:02:48,870 --> 00:02:44,860 RA doing some of the call screening 50 00:02:51,060 --> 00:02:48,880 Thank You race and we hope to hear from 51 00:02:52,890 --> 00:02:51,070 if you listen to the show in other ways 52 00:02:56,670 --> 00:02:52,900 over at the Dark Matter digital network 53 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:56,680 or on YouTube or you are listener to the 54 00:03:01,580 --> 00:02:58,810 podcast and of course are in YouTube all 55 00:03:05,750 --> 00:03:01,590 the time we'd love to hear from you and 56 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:05,760 that is next week starting at 6 to 8 57 00:03:13,050 --> 00:03:09,130 p.m. Eastern Standard Time and now that 58 00:03:15,510 --> 00:03:13,060 is -4 GMT instead of minus 5 because we 59 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:15,520 had to time change last Sunday and 60 00:03:18,870 --> 00:03:18,250 without further ado I'm going to welcome 61 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:18,880 our guest 62 00:03:24,030 --> 00:03:22,090 welcome to the show Kevin thank you very 63 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:24,040 much for having me and you remember to 64 00:03:30,470 --> 00:03:26,310 unmute your mic that's great thank you 65 00:03:33,930 --> 00:03:30,480 that's that's about a 50/50 on this show 66 00:03:36,060 --> 00:03:33,940 so I'm really really glad to have you on 67 00:03:38,340 --> 00:03:36,070 Kevin for so many reasons 68 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:38,350 I know that Alejandro interviewed you I 69 00:03:42,690 --> 00:03:39,310 just found that out 70 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:42,700 a day or two of those he was at that 71 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:45,730 conference where you did your your talk 72 00:03:54,870 --> 00:03:48,130 there was that about a year ago or 73 00:03:58,800 --> 00:03:54,880 something like that and how if you could 74 00:04:00,960 --> 00:03:58,810 tell the listening audience what made 75 00:04:06,780 --> 00:04:00,970 you decide to tackle this interesting 76 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:06,790 topic I think it's interesting maybe 77 00:04:17,729 --> 00:04:10,330 decided to tackle it moment of insanity 78 00:04:22,050 --> 00:04:17,739 perhaps seriously I think I was I found 79 00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:22,060 the the revelations of the a tip program 80 00:04:26,550 --> 00:04:24,400 quite compelling and quite interesting 81 00:04:28,710 --> 00:04:26,560 and and I have long felt that you know 82 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:28,720 scientists artists ought to study these 83 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:30,700 things rather than just joke about them 84 00:04:39,780 --> 00:04:36,970 and and so when I heard especially when 85 00:04:43,740 --> 00:04:39,790 I heard about the the conference the the 86 00:04:46,350 --> 00:04:43,750 that the scientific Coalition for UAP 87 00:04:47,070 --> 00:04:46,360 studies was holding I thought well I 88 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:47,080 would 89 00:04:50,730 --> 00:04:48,849 like to go to this and find out more and 90 00:04:54,749 --> 00:04:50,740 so that's pretty much what got me 91 00:04:57,450 --> 00:04:54,759 interested in this uh-huh and had just 92 00:05:01,260 --> 00:04:57,460 had you yourself ever had any type of 93 00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:01,270 sighting or anything that's hard to 94 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:04,449 answer because it's I had I had seen 95 00:05:08,070 --> 00:05:06,490 something unusual that I really just 96 00:05:12,170 --> 00:05:08,080 thought was a weather balloon at one 97 00:05:15,749 --> 00:05:12,180 point I was it was while I was in 98 00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:15,759 college working my bachelor's degree and 99 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:18,039 I was working as a computer scientist at 100 00:05:25,290 --> 00:05:22,240 mercury marine in in Wisconsin and I was 101 00:05:26,879 --> 00:05:25,300 coming out of work it was afternoon 102 00:05:32,850 --> 00:05:26,889 probably around 3:00 or 4:00 in the 103 00:05:36,029 --> 00:05:32,860 afternoon and I saw a I saw an f16 104 00:05:38,820 --> 00:05:36,039 flying and got very excited about that 105 00:05:41,790 --> 00:05:38,830 and the end and that was not horribly 106 00:05:43,409 --> 00:05:41,800 unusual because I grew up just south of 107 00:05:46,469 --> 00:05:43,419 Oshkosh Wisconsin where they have the 108 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:46,479 Experimental Aircraft Association fly-in 109 00:05:52,740 --> 00:05:50,050 so the EAA fly-in is there and very 110 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:52,750 often we see warbirds flying but that 111 00:05:57,959 --> 00:05:54,849 really wasn't until near the end of July 112 00:06:00,450 --> 00:05:57,969 so this is probably early June and I saw 113 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:00,460 an f-16 I thought wow an f-16 what is it 114 00:06:06,420 --> 00:06:03,940 what doesn't have 16 doing here so I ran 115 00:06:08,490 --> 00:06:06,430 in my car and got my binoculars I'm a 116 00:06:10,769 --> 00:06:08,500 bird watcher so I keep binoculars in my 117 00:06:12,510 --> 00:06:10,779 car and grab the binoculars and I looked 118 00:06:14,490 --> 00:06:12,520 and realized there were two f-16s and 119 00:06:17,159 --> 00:06:14,500 they kind of split up and came back 120 00:06:19,369 --> 00:06:17,169 around and as I watched I realized that 121 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:19,379 they were basically flying around 122 00:06:25,740 --> 00:06:22,000 metallic sphere that was just just 123 00:06:28,110 --> 00:06:25,750 hovering there in the air and the sphere 124 00:06:30,809 --> 00:06:28,120 was about a third of the length of an 125 00:06:32,850 --> 00:06:30,819 f-16 they were right next to each other 126 00:06:35,790 --> 00:06:32,860 for direct comparison and I well I 127 00:06:39,749 --> 00:06:35,800 assumed that I was watching a some kind 128 00:06:44,059 --> 00:06:39,759 of exercise and just imagined it was a 129 00:06:48,329 --> 00:06:46,379 and so I watched I watched your 130 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:48,339 binoculars I had a very clear view it 131 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:51,310 was a clear sky the bright summer day 132 00:07:00,060 --> 00:06:53,650 and 133 00:07:01,950 --> 00:07:00,070 thought oh my brother has to see this so 134 00:07:05,550 --> 00:07:01,960 this is before we had cell phones this 135 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:05,560 would have been back around 1987 and so 136 00:07:09,180 --> 00:07:06,970 I thought my brother has to see this so 137 00:07:12,810 --> 00:07:09,190 I hopped in the car and raced home to 138 00:07:14,249 --> 00:07:12,820 get my get my younger brother and by the 139 00:07:17,279 --> 00:07:14,259 time I got home which was about 10 140 00:07:18,990 --> 00:07:17,289 minutes later I grabbed him and went 141 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:19,000 outside and everything was gone the 142 00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:21,910 smoke trails were gone and so on oh and 143 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:23,110 I forgot to add that while I was 144 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:25,090 watching during those three minutes two 145 00:07:30,510 --> 00:07:27,610 more f-16s came in from the West from 146 00:07:31,860 --> 00:07:30,520 another Air Force Base and they all four 147 00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:31,870 of them were buzzing around this thing 148 00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:35,680 like bees and it was it was very cool to 149 00:07:39,090 --> 00:07:37,360 watch you know but I really imagined 150 00:07:40,830 --> 00:07:39,100 that I was watching and exercising so 151 00:07:42,659 --> 00:07:40,840 but I don't know what happened to this 152 00:07:44,670 --> 00:07:42,669 fear this fear was gone and the f-16s 153 00:07:47,250 --> 00:07:44,680 were gone so by the time I'd gotten to 154 00:07:50,370 --> 00:07:47,260 my house so I don't know how the thing 155 00:07:52,230 --> 00:07:50,380 concluded and and for years I just 156 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:52,240 imagined that there was an exercise with 157 00:07:55,980 --> 00:07:54,490 weather balloons and and at one point I 158 00:07:58,500 --> 00:07:55,990 was talking to a friend in the Air Force 159 00:08:01,140 --> 00:07:58,510 and I mentioned this this story and and 160 00:08:03,029 --> 00:08:01,150 they were they looked at me quite 161 00:08:04,529 --> 00:08:03,039 surprised they said well first you they 162 00:08:09,510 --> 00:08:04,539 wouldn't have been conducting exercises 163 00:08:12,210 --> 00:08:09,520 over a city and they also said also you 164 00:08:13,439 --> 00:08:12,220 don't fly it f-16 or a jet aircraft like 165 00:08:14,969 --> 00:08:13,449 that anywhere near a weather balloon 166 00:08:16,969 --> 00:08:14,979 because you're gonna suck it into the 167 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:16,979 air intake you bring the plane down and 168 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:20,530 and they they noted that the fact that 169 00:08:24,540 --> 00:08:22,690 there were two f-16s from one direction 170 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:24,550 and two from another sounds like a 171 00:08:29,070 --> 00:08:27,310 response to an urgent threat so so their 172 00:08:30,719 --> 00:08:29,080 assessment was that they were actually 173 00:08:32,959 --> 00:08:30,729 responding to a threat but they what 174 00:08:45,630 --> 00:08:32,969 they determined to be a threat and were 175 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:45,640 actually engaging something so so real 176 00:08:51,930 --> 00:08:47,650 that's a great story and there's there 177 00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:51,940 is so many similar stories of you know 178 00:08:57,690 --> 00:08:54,880 fighter pilots and the afterburners you 179 00:09:00,720 --> 00:08:57,700 know taking off after these things 180 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:00,730 chasing you know I mean a guy in the end 181 00:09:05,519 --> 00:09:03,370 I'm in the antiques world an antique 182 00:09:06,700 --> 00:09:05,529 dealer friend of mine in Canada was 183 00:09:10,540 --> 00:09:06,710 talking about 184 00:09:13,060 --> 00:09:10,550 you know being at a party this is I 185 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:13,070 think it's a great story when he found 186 00:09:17,290 --> 00:09:15,410 out that I did a show on UFOs they had a 187 00:09:19,090 --> 00:09:17,300 party at his house and they were all 188 00:09:23,590 --> 00:09:19,100 outside during the summer on his deck 189 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:23,600 and someone you know said what is that 190 00:09:29,230 --> 00:09:26,210 and they heard this this noise and they 191 00:09:33,370 --> 00:09:29,240 saw this perfectly shaped disc going 192 00:09:35,170 --> 00:09:33,380 really fast and two fighter jets with 193 00:09:38,530 --> 00:09:35,180 their afterburners on chasing after it 194 00:09:41,380 --> 00:09:38,540 and then they saw it Zig Zig back and it 195 00:09:44,230 --> 00:09:41,390 was still being followed but the thing 196 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:44,240 had you know got some space in between 197 00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:48,650 them so he that's that sounds really 198 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:51,230 exciting I for me the sphere was just 199 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:54,730 sitting there motionless so it was 200 00:09:59,890 --> 00:09:57,290 that's still really interesting but 201 00:10:01,900 --> 00:09:59,900 anyway the the thing that he impressed 202 00:10:03,610 --> 00:10:01,910 him the most was first of all knowing 203 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:03,620 that the party wanted to talk about it 204 00:10:08,140 --> 00:10:05,690 that was the first thing and the second 205 00:10:09,370 --> 00:10:08,150 thing is he scoured the newspapers and 206 00:10:10,090 --> 00:10:09,380 everything he said he just couldn't 207 00:10:12,820 --> 00:10:10,100 believe it 208 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:12,830 there was no reports anywhere about it 209 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:20,690 because it was so fantastic so yeah and 210 00:10:24,370 --> 00:10:22,970 I like I said for a long time I really 211 00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:24,380 just thought it was some exercise with 212 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:25,910 the weather balloons so there was no 213 00:10:32,380 --> 00:10:29,030 real compulsion to report it right and 214 00:10:33,850 --> 00:10:32,390 in 1987 well where would you report 215 00:10:36,250 --> 00:10:33,860 something like that I mean I wouldn't 216 00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:36,260 you would get on a horse online you 217 00:10:41,230 --> 00:10:38,720 would think of an you know I would have 218 00:10:42,730 --> 00:10:41,240 had no idea I mean the only time I saw 219 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:42,740 something I called the air force base 220 00:10:52,300 --> 00:10:44,810 nearby that's I didn't know what else to 221 00:10:55,210 --> 00:10:52,310 do right and so what has the road been 222 00:10:58,060 --> 00:10:55,220 like for you through NASA and all the 223 00:11:02,190 --> 00:10:58,070 other things that you've done to where 224 00:11:04,300 --> 00:11:02,200 you you are today and and what made you 225 00:11:10,410 --> 00:11:04,310 actually write the paper you recently 226 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:12,370 trying to think of what the most 227 00:11:23,140 --> 00:11:19,040 important events were I I've always 228 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:23,150 found the topic interesting since I was 229 00:11:28,390 --> 00:11:26,690 a kid and and and of course your 230 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:28,400 imagination runs wild what if what if 231 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:31,010 what if which is great fun as a 232 00:11:36,190 --> 00:11:33,529 scientist that's tempered by your 233 00:11:37,930 --> 00:11:36,200 knowledge of how things you know of how 234 00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:37,940 we understand things to be in the 235 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:39,529 universe and how to understand physics 236 00:11:45,070 --> 00:11:42,890 and engineering the ability to travel 237 00:11:47,230 --> 00:11:45,080 between the stars it's clearly is very 238 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:47,240 very hard for us to imagine how to do 239 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:50,210 this and so so that tempers your 240 00:11:59,620 --> 00:11:55,970 enthusiasm a little bit but but I always 241 00:12:04,440 --> 00:11:59,630 appreciated the fact that science 242 00:12:06,610 --> 00:12:04,450 studies things that are controllable and 243 00:12:09,010 --> 00:12:06,620 reproducible that's really where the 244 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:09,020 power of science comes in and when you 245 00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:10,250 are studying something that's not 246 00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:11,630 reproducible or you don't have any 247 00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:13,430 control over it's extremely hard to do 248 00:12:21,310 --> 00:12:18,380 and I think back to a time when I was at 249 00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:21,320 NASA Ames and I was doing work research 250 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:23,360 on studying planetary nebulae which are 251 00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:27,050 clouds of gas surrounding dying stars we 252 00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,320 had a local poster session of just 253 00:12:35,769 --> 00:12:32,000 presenting our research that was funded 254 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:35,779 by the center and my my poster was next 255 00:12:41,769 --> 00:12:38,510 to a poster from a gentleman named 256 00:12:43,870 --> 00:12:41,779 Frieden friend and his poster was on 257 00:12:47,170 --> 00:12:43,880 earthquake lights which I know I had 258 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:47,180 that never had never heard of and so so 259 00:12:51,490 --> 00:12:49,910 I you know where we're standing around 260 00:12:53,079 --> 00:12:51,500 showing and talking to people about our 261 00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:53,089 research but you know when your posters 262 00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:54,529 is busy you wander around and look at 263 00:12:58,570 --> 00:12:56,270 other people so i remember i was looking 264 00:13:00,070 --> 00:12:58,580 at friedman frines poster and started 265 00:13:02,769 --> 00:13:00,080 asking him some questions and asking 266 00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:02,779 about earthquake lights and you know he 267 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:04,700 said well you know when there's very 268 00:13:09,699 --> 00:13:06,170 often when there's earthquakes people 269 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:09,709 see these orbs of light appear and or 270 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:11,330 you can see jets coming out of the 271 00:13:18,190 --> 00:13:15,650 ground of light and and this these 272 00:13:19,770 --> 00:13:18,200 things aren't studied in fact most most 273 00:13:22,110 --> 00:13:19,780 people don't believe that they're real 274 00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:22,120 the the 275 00:13:25,890 --> 00:13:23,440 the time the general belief was that 276 00:13:29,250 --> 00:13:25,900 people in earthquakes were panicking and 277 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:29,260 hallucinating and I I thought that was 278 00:13:37,740 --> 00:13:31,450 kind of amusing I thought well he can't 279 00:13:39,870 --> 00:13:37,750 have everybody and and he's his whole 280 00:13:41,579 --> 00:13:39,880 take on this his research was trying to 281 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:41,589 understand where these lights could come 282 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:44,650 from and he was proposing that stress in 283 00:13:49,769 --> 00:13:47,890 the Earth's crust would put put huge 284 00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:49,779 pressures on quartz crystals that would 285 00:13:53,790 --> 00:13:51,760 then act as piezoelectric crystals 286 00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:53,800 giving you large electric fields which 287 00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:55,990 could ionize the air and create these 288 00:14:00,990 --> 00:13:58,560 lights and I thought it very reasonable 289 00:14:02,930 --> 00:14:01,000 explanation you know it hinges on the 290 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:02,940 question as to whether rock can 291 00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:05,410 effectively conduct current at those 292 00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:07,990 potentials and that I just didn't know 293 00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:08,980 and that's what he was actually 294 00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:11,680 researching so I thought it was pretty 295 00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:13,510 interesting and so I asked around some 296 00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:14,800 of the other some of the other 297 00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:16,360 scientists and I said yeah did you see 298 00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:17,830 the poster next to mine is kind of 299 00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:19,270 interesting what do you make of that and 300 00:14:23,730 --> 00:14:21,760 they and everybody really pooh-poohed it 301 00:14:26,460 --> 00:14:23,740 they were all oh yeah that's Friedman 302 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:26,470 Freud he was he was I think in as maybe 303 00:14:30,930 --> 00:14:29,110 in this 60s or 70s at the time and 304 00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:30,940 everybody everybody pretty much said 305 00:14:34,140 --> 00:14:32,380 he's been going on and on about 306 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:34,150 earthquake lights for years and he 307 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:36,430 believes that they're you know created 308 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:40,770 from stress in the Earth's crust and and 309 00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:43,330 and it's really all just nonsense and 310 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:44,950 that was pretty much everybody's take 311 00:14:49,260 --> 00:14:47,170 and I and I wasn't screams disturbed by 312 00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:49,270 this I thought but you know he could be 313 00:14:53,190 --> 00:14:51,190 right you know that it's a plausible 314 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:53,200 explanation we just don't know much 315 00:14:57,890 --> 00:14:55,330 about conductivity of the Earth's crust 316 00:15:00,390 --> 00:14:57,900 and you know these sorts of things and 317 00:15:02,190 --> 00:15:00,400 then I pointed out if it's true then 318 00:15:03,930 --> 00:15:02,200 what that means is you could probably 319 00:15:07,019 --> 00:15:03,940 detect earthquakes before they happened 320 00:15:08,670 --> 00:15:07,029 by measuring electric fields and because 321 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:08,680 yeah I suppose but we all know that 322 00:15:11,820 --> 00:15:10,450 earthquakes aren't predictable anyway in 323 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:11,830 blah blah blah and I said well we've 324 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:13,330 been told that because nobody figured 325 00:15:18,630 --> 00:15:15,250 out how to predict them but he might 326 00:15:20,610 --> 00:15:18,640 figure it out that's interesting so so I 327 00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:20,620 always I always remembered that and I 328 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:22,630 was always kind of disturbed by people's 329 00:15:28,019 --> 00:15:25,330 reactions to his work and it wasn't 330 00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:28,029 until oh maybe what it was at 2015 just 331 00:15:33,390 --> 00:15:30,790 a couple years ago now I think there 332 00:15:34,930 --> 00:15:33,400 were was an earthquake in Chile in Japan 333 00:15:37,610 --> 00:15:34,940 where they captured 334 00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:37,620 earthquake lights on security cameras 335 00:15:42,980 --> 00:15:41,190 and and so now actually if you google 336 00:15:44,569 --> 00:15:42,990 earthquake lights you'll see articles 337 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:44,579 about earthquake lights and who are they 338 00:15:47,870 --> 00:15:45,870 interviewing well they're interviewing 339 00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:47,880 the only expert in the world on 340 00:15:52,670 --> 00:15:49,649 earthquake lights who's Freedman friends 341 00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:52,680 this one guy this one guy who had the 342 00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:54,630 gun who had the guts to study it which I 343 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:56,399 which I was really impressed by I 344 00:16:01,730 --> 00:15:57,930 thought that's that's really interesting 345 00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,740 so so when I did encounter the 346 00:16:06,410 --> 00:16:03,839 possibility of studying UFOs I thought 347 00:16:08,060 --> 00:16:06,420 well you know this is clearly this is 348 00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,070 going to be risky and people are gonna 349 00:16:11,629 --> 00:16:09,839 have mixed opinions scientists 350 00:16:14,269 --> 00:16:11,639 especially you're going to have varying 351 00:16:17,870 --> 00:16:14,279 opinions on this not all positive but 352 00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,880 you know as long as I as long as I 353 00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:20,160 research is carefully like I would any 354 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:26,160 other scientific topic and then I don't 355 00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:27,990 see what I'm doing wrong I can't I'm not 356 00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:29,519 doing anything wrong it's hard for 357 00:16:33,379 --> 00:16:31,860 anybody to really criticize me I mean 358 00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:33,389 they may try and they may succeed to 359 00:16:39,439 --> 00:16:36,360 some degree you know socially but but 360 00:16:41,769 --> 00:16:39,449 there's I think this is a good good path 361 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:41,779 somebody has to study these things and 362 00:16:50,660 --> 00:16:46,550 and right now you know from from a 363 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:50,670 career perspective it's potentially 364 00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:53,730 damaging you know if I go on and on and 365 00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:55,560 start spouting off things that I don't 366 00:17:01,370 --> 00:16:57,120 really have data for which I'm very 367 00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:01,380 careful not to do but you know the event 368 00:17:05,059 --> 00:17:03,510 that I do collect data or you know we 369 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:05,069 start to understand what these things 370 00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:07,290 are I'll be one of the only experts in 371 00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:08,640 the world who really understand these 372 00:17:13,069 --> 00:17:10,260 things scientifically and that's a good 373 00:17:15,049 --> 00:17:13,079 position to be in so yeah I've seen I 374 00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:15,059 don't see no reason not to study them in 375 00:17:20,449 --> 00:17:18,480 fact this is precisely the topic that if 376 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:20,459 I walked away from it I can see myself 377 00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:23,610 kicking myself in the future what were 378 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:27,449 you doing walking away from this who 379 00:17:31,610 --> 00:17:29,940 would walk away from this potentially 380 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:31,620 one of the biggest discoveries in human 381 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:33,690 history you know I don't I can't say 382 00:17:38,030 --> 00:17:35,370 what they you know what these things are 383 00:17:40,580 --> 00:17:38,040 they appear to be structured craft you 384 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:40,590 know are they extraterrestrial or not we 385 00:17:45,649 --> 00:17:43,890 don't know for sure and if they are it's 386 00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:45,659 a huge discovery and if they aren't it's 387 00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:48,000 still a huge discovery so I I don't 388 00:17:54,530 --> 00:17:50,960 see I don't see the way to lose here 389 00:17:58,100 --> 00:17:54,540 right and I I would argue that it would 390 00:18:01,100 --> 00:17:58,110 be the biggest discovery you know ever 391 00:18:04,670 --> 00:18:01,110 made by mankind oh I I would think so 392 00:18:08,090 --> 00:18:04,680 too yeah yeah you know it's and thank 393 00:18:12,410 --> 00:18:08,100 you for for for doing this actually 394 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:12,420 taking the risk because like I mentioned 395 00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:16,290 in the intro you know a lot of people 396 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:19,350 would not ever look into this or think 397 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:20,910 it's a silly topic just like the 398 00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:24,450 earthquake lights and you know it's it's 399 00:18:29,420 --> 00:18:27,660 there it seems to be going in the 400 00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:29,430 direction where more people are taking 401 00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:31,860 this a little bit more seriously you 402 00:18:35,930 --> 00:18:33,870 know I mean I had the sighting I had I 403 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:35,940 couldn't explain what it was and that's 404 00:18:39,290 --> 00:18:37,890 what made me curious and that's what 405 00:18:43,820 --> 00:18:39,300 makes me have the show today 406 00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:43,830 and it's it's and I'm not saying I know 407 00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:46,920 anything closer to what they actually 408 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:49,680 are then I did when I started but it's 409 00:18:56,020 --> 00:18:53,250 still a fascinating topic and one with 410 00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:56,030 you know so many possibilities and 411 00:19:00,110 --> 00:18:58,080 anyway I'm really glad that you're 412 00:19:01,910 --> 00:19:00,120 taking this seriously and one of the 413 00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:01,920 arguments that I've heard people talk 414 00:19:05,870 --> 00:19:03,480 about when it comes to science and 415 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:05,880 taking this seriously is the fund money 416 00:19:12,620 --> 00:19:09,630 like if you can't resolve something 417 00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:12,630 within a certain period of time then 418 00:19:17,780 --> 00:19:14,700 there's no such thing as funding for it 419 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:17,790 and I I do understand that and it's not 420 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:19,890 something that can be replicated easily 421 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:22,050 it just either happens or it doesn't 422 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:25,110 happen it's fleeting so what are your 423 00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:29,370 thoughts on all that my thoughts are we 424 00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:31,470 are trying to get funding from private 425 00:19:36,890 --> 00:19:34,380 sources I've done a lot of research 426 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:36,900 without funding you kind of do it on the 427 00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:38,820 side in your spare time and do the best 428 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:42,150 you can it means that you can't buy 429 00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:44,730 equipment usually you can't travel 430 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:47,280 places to meet with other people who are 431 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:49,650 studying it you have to pay for those 432 00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:51,330 things out of pocket which I've done 433 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:53,550 before and I can I'm doing that again 434 00:20:00,010 --> 00:19:57,090 now so I think it's important to study 435 00:20:01,820 --> 00:20:00,020 this these you know we've known 436 00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:01,830 culturally we've known 437 00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:04,110 these objects for you know since the 438 00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:06,990 1940s but the sightings go back much 439 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:11,220 further than that and and clearly this 440 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:15,090 is important and the it's unfortunate 441 00:20:19,340 --> 00:20:17,250 that the attitude of the scientific 442 00:20:24,919 --> 00:20:19,350 community is that this study of these 443 00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:24,929 objects is unscientific and it's ironic 444 00:20:30,769 --> 00:20:28,289 that that attitude inhibits scientific 445 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:30,779 studies so just declaring something on 446 00:20:36,830 --> 00:20:32,730 scientific means that you don't study it 447 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:36,840 which makes it stay on scientific but 448 00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:38,730 what that also does is it perpetuates a 449 00:20:44,330 --> 00:20:42,600 state of ignorance and and at this point 450 00:20:46,730 --> 00:20:44,340 you know now we have enough evidence 451 00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:46,740 from the US Navy where these things are 452 00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:51,720 interfering with aircraft military 453 00:20:57,379 --> 00:20:53,190 aircraft during military operations 454 00:20:59,299 --> 00:20:57,389 that's a serious issue and so now what 455 00:21:02,000 --> 00:20:59,309 do we do we've perpetuated the state of 456 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:02,010 ignorance for 70 years and that's 457 00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:05,370 incredibly detrimental and we don't know 458 00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:08,159 what the situation is the I don't I 459 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:10,049 don't believe that these things are 460 00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:11,970 hostile whatever they are there doesn't 461 00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:13,500 appear to be much evidence that they're 462 00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:16,169 hostile but if they wanted to be hostile 463 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:18,000 we would be in big trouble 464 00:21:25,310 --> 00:21:21,690 and so so this is potentially one of the 465 00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:25,320 biggest safety or security issues we've 466 00:21:29,539 --> 00:21:28,169 ever come across and again people aren't 467 00:21:30,740 --> 00:21:29,549 people aren't paying attention and they 468 00:21:32,659 --> 00:21:30,750 know people in the military are 469 00:21:35,269 --> 00:21:32,669 surprised that the Navy and the other 470 00:21:36,860 --> 00:21:35,279 military branches aren't that interested 471 00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:36,870 I mean this is something that we should 472 00:21:41,930 --> 00:21:40,320 all if if they had if they had a you 473 00:21:43,639 --> 00:21:41,940 know sickle and a hammer painted on the 474 00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:43,649 side of one of these crafts we'd all be 475 00:21:49,460 --> 00:21:46,380 up in arms literally I mean we would be 476 00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:49,470 at war at this point but that's not the 477 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:51,000 case and so people aren't worried it's 478 00:21:57,049 --> 00:21:53,010 but that's really pretty ridiculous and 479 00:21:59,180 --> 00:21:57,059 so I don't I think it's this you know 480 00:22:03,169 --> 00:21:59,190 it's the belief that we this can't be 481 00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:03,179 possible which is you know stopping us 482 00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:04,980 from understanding what their situation 483 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:06,990 really is and I think that's a pretty 484 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:10,080 silly pretty silly response on their 485 00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:12,570 part have you heard of Stanton Friedman 486 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:15,840 oh yes yes well 487 00:22:18,890 --> 00:22:17,370 I never had the pleasure to meet him but 488 00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:18,900 I'll watch several of his talks on 489 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:21,270 YouTube yeah he was a real gentleman 490 00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:23,850 oh one of his things that he'd like to 491 00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:26,640 say is about the skeptics out there well 492 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:28,860 if it was out if this was happening I 493 00:22:31,490 --> 00:22:30,330 would know about it you know I mean 494 00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:31,500 that's kind of haha 495 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:37,080 you know the ego-driven look at it 496 00:22:43,399 --> 00:22:39,570 unfortunately you know that that you do 497 00:22:46,190 --> 00:22:43,409 here not exactly in those words but that 498 00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:46,200 that kind of sums it up and it's kind of 499 00:22:52,909 --> 00:22:49,380 surprising that SETI is does not even 500 00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:52,919 want to admit that there's a possibility 501 00:23:00,620 --> 00:22:55,049 that we're being visited you know I 502 00:23:01,970 --> 00:23:00,630 think they're they like many areas in 503 00:23:05,299 --> 00:23:01,980 science are worried about funding 504 00:23:09,409 --> 00:23:05,309 exactly for they've been on the fringe 505 00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:09,419 for since the their inception and they 506 00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:12,750 try to you know mitigate the degree to 507 00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:14,159 which they're on the fringe and I think 508 00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:16,260 that's why they stay away from it and 509 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:19,080 now at this point it's just cultural but 510 00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:20,970 it's but it's for me it's surprising 511 00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:25,830 because I know of serious scientific 512 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:28,950 efforts in SETI to look for 513 00:23:33,529 --> 00:23:30,809 extraterrestrial artifacts in the solar 514 00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:33,539 system on the moon on Mars on asteroids 515 00:23:40,250 --> 00:23:36,240 and at the earth associated the grudge 516 00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:40,260 points so there are active searches for 517 00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:43,590 artifacts in the solar system but are 518 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:45,350 they in our atmosphere 519 00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,850 that's kind of that's kind of ridiculous 520 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:49,679 you know somebody is seeing something 521 00:23:56,180 --> 00:23:51,450 unusual you're gonna want to check it 522 00:23:59,180 --> 00:23:56,190 out it's unfortunate but on the other 523 00:24:02,360 --> 00:23:59,190 hand I see it as this is an opportunity 524 00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:02,370 for me and the other scientists now who 525 00:24:06,620 --> 00:24:03,840 are getting into this because there are 526 00:24:08,510 --> 00:24:06,630 others and this leaves the field wide 527 00:24:11,299 --> 00:24:08,520 open for us to make the discovery so 528 00:24:14,210 --> 00:24:11,309 that's right now it's fine right now 529 00:24:16,669 --> 00:24:14,220 it's fine with me you keep listening to 530 00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:16,679 radio radios let's leave for radio 531 00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:19,260 stations and I'm gonna I'm gonna track 532 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:20,940 down some of these craft that's all 533 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:21,510 there is to it 534 00:24:26,450 --> 00:24:23,970 excellent okay well we are going into 535 00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:26,460 break so hang in everyone there we'll be 536 00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:28,799 right back right after these messages 537 00:24:31,580 --> 00:24:29,340 well 538 00:24:36,050 --> 00:24:31,590 back this is Martin Willis and my guest 539 00:24:37,550 --> 00:24:36,060 this evening is Kevin Knuth and we were 540 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:37,560 talking about said he wouldn't we went 541 00:24:46,370 --> 00:24:40,890 into the break and I had Seth Shaw stack 542 00:24:48,740 --> 00:24:46,380 on this show a few times and we always 543 00:24:51,340 --> 00:24:48,750 get into the debate of UFOs and oh boy 544 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:51,350 some listeners get really angry about 545 00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:53,850 because he's very good he's he's very 546 00:25:00,830 --> 00:24:56,150 bright he's he's funny he's a nice guy 547 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:00,840 but you know basically his argument is 548 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:03,510 that you know he needs physical evidence 549 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:05,130 lots and lots of physical evidence 550 00:25:09,650 --> 00:25:07,410 enough to fill at one time he told me he 551 00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:09,660 needed to fill a wing we needed to fill 552 00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,840 a wing in the Smithsonian before he 553 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:14,880 would take this seriously and I said 554 00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:16,290 well what about dark matter how much 555 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:17,640 evidence do you have of that and these 556 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:20,640 so I'll yes you know he had all kinds of 557 00:25:25,820 --> 00:25:23,730 evidence of that and but anyway it's 558 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:25,830 it's useless to argue with someone that 559 00:25:29,810 --> 00:25:27,210 already has their mind made up 560 00:25:33,250 --> 00:25:29,820 you know yeah and I think I think the 561 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:33,260 other problem that you run into is that 562 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:38,490 astronomers especially are heavy we each 563 00:25:43,370 --> 00:25:40,410 have a personal history where we've had 564 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:43,380 to argue against pseudoscience like 565 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:46,170 astrology well yes and and I think as 566 00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:49,290 educators were trained to you know we're 567 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:55,230 trained to not you know not be tolerant 568 00:26:00,610 --> 00:25:57,690 of that kind of ignorance and to you 569 00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:00,620 know try to set people straight and so I 570 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:03,360 think that a lot of times when you see 571 00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:05,690 especially some of these prominent 572 00:26:11,450 --> 00:26:08,790 popular scientists speaking about UFOs 573 00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:11,460 they have in their minds that this is a 574 00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:14,070 pseudoscience and so they're they really 575 00:26:20,510 --> 00:26:15,720 feel that it's their duty to set people 576 00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:20,520 straight unfortunately its this hasn't 577 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:23,880 been unlike astrology which which had 578 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:25,890 been looked at for a long time and you 579 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:29,010 know morphed into astronomy this hasn't 580 00:26:33,650 --> 00:26:31,110 been studied well and that's really the 581 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:33,660 big difference and I think it's 582 00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:35,250 important for them to keep that in mind 583 00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:37,590 now there is some evidence and I think 584 00:26:41,919 --> 00:26:40,230 there's enough evidence for us to look 585 00:26:43,450 --> 00:26:41,929 at it more closely 586 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:43,460 there's not enough evidence for us to 587 00:26:45,999 --> 00:26:44,470 say yes they are definitely 588 00:26:48,399 --> 00:26:46,009 extraterrestrial yes there definitely 589 00:26:50,619 --> 00:26:48,409 aliens but there is some evidence that 590 00:26:55,930 --> 00:26:50,629 these things do appear to be structured 591 00:26:57,940 --> 00:26:55,940 craft and and that's concerning and what 592 00:26:59,680 --> 00:26:57,950 about you know there there are claims I 593 00:27:01,570 --> 00:26:59,690 don't know what I think about the claims 594 00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:01,580 but there are many claims going all the 595 00:27:03,970 --> 00:27:02,990 way back to Roswell that there's been 596 00:27:06,129 --> 00:27:03,980 crashed 597 00:27:08,499 --> 00:27:06,139 vehicles and you know the argument off 598 00:27:10,419 --> 00:27:08,509 you hear about that is how could they 599 00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:10,429 travel you know light-years away or 600 00:27:14,019 --> 00:27:11,840 whatever it is to get here and then 601 00:27:16,299 --> 00:27:14,029 crash here you know it's ridiculous that 602 00:27:18,909 --> 00:27:16,309 type of thing you know there's and and I 603 00:27:20,859 --> 00:27:18,919 don't really know if that so if you know 604 00:27:25,239 --> 00:27:20,869 someone like Bob Lazar actually did see 605 00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,249 you know a craft if that the government 606 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:27,440 has tucked away you know I don't have 607 00:27:31,899 --> 00:27:29,450 said many times in the show that I don't 608 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:31,909 really buy that and a lot of people 609 00:27:36,340 --> 00:27:34,490 really stand behind Bob Lazar so I'm 610 00:27:40,869 --> 00:27:36,350 expecting hate mail already for saying 611 00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:40,879 that but anyway what are your thoughts 612 00:27:49,149 --> 00:27:45,039 do you and I I do believe that t TSA is 613 00:27:53,019 --> 00:27:49,159 saying that they they have some crashed 614 00:27:55,149 --> 00:27:53,029 saucer or crashed UFO material that's 615 00:27:57,810 --> 00:27:55,159 going to be exposed soon and also in the 616 00:27:59,799 --> 00:27:57,820 movie phenomenon the phenomenon that is 617 00:28:01,600 --> 00:27:59,809 supposedly there's gonna be something 618 00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:01,610 revealed in that as well what's your 619 00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:04,460 thoughts on that whole topics so I've 620 00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:09,740 I've had to kind of adopt this degree of 621 00:28:13,869 --> 00:28:12,289 belief where I kind of rank what I hear 622 00:28:16,239 --> 00:28:13,879 from people because I know in 623 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:16,249 communication with people who are you 624 00:28:21,999 --> 00:28:19,490 know formerly with the Pentagon or 625 00:28:25,299 --> 00:28:22,009 former former Navy people and and other 626 00:28:27,549 --> 00:28:25,309 scientists and if I hear something from 627 00:28:32,019 --> 00:28:27,559 one person or maybe you know two people 628 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:32,029 then and I consider it to be a rumor if 629 00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:34,490 I hear it from many people you know 630 00:28:38,019 --> 00:28:36,169 supported from many different angles 631 00:28:39,639 --> 00:28:38,029 with different pieces of evidence then 632 00:28:41,980 --> 00:28:39,649 you know I take it more so a little more 633 00:28:45,820 --> 00:28:41,990 strongly so at this point I guess I've 634 00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:45,830 heard rumors from various people that we 635 00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:47,809 have crush craft in our possession and 636 00:28:54,970 --> 00:28:52,159 so I I suspect that we it's it's 637 00:28:55,910 --> 00:28:54,980 possible that we do I don't I don't know 638 00:28:57,530 --> 00:28:55,920 any of the details 639 00:28:59,810 --> 00:28:57,540 I've heard I've heard some details but I 640 00:29:01,670 --> 00:28:59,820 don't know how true they are and so I 641 00:29:05,180 --> 00:29:01,680 kind of take that with a grain of salt 642 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:05,190 but I basically tuck this away is this 643 00:29:09,140 --> 00:29:07,890 might be true and that's that I think 644 00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:09,150 the best I can do in this kind of 645 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:11,400 situation where you're hearing anecdotal 646 00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:14,250 evidence from various people who do have 647 00:29:19,330 --> 00:29:16,710 access to these sorts of things and it's 648 00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:19,340 a difficult so this is a difficult 649 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:23,550 subject to tread you know is it possible 650 00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:26,490 that craft could have come here and I 651 00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:28,980 think it's possible and you know is it 652 00:29:33,050 --> 00:29:31,260 possible that you've had craft here and 653 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:33,060 have crashed I think that's possible to 654 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:35,370 earth is earth is going to be a 655 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:39,030 relatively hostile place and so you know 656 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:41,450 it's not like flying around Mars and so 657 00:29:46,730 --> 00:29:44,730 and flying around Mars isn't that easy 658 00:29:49,730 --> 00:29:46,740 either we've had we've had crashed craft 659 00:29:51,410 --> 00:29:49,740 on Mars so I don't you know I expect I 660 00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:51,420 expect that you know somebody who's 661 00:29:55,850 --> 00:29:53,310 mastered interstellar travel to some 662 00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:55,860 degree is going to be you know better at 663 00:30:02,630 --> 00:29:58,320 this and probably have fewer crushes but 664 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:02,640 the other the other the fact that we 665 00:30:06,410 --> 00:30:04,530 don't know is we don't you know if if 666 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:06,420 these things are structured craft from 667 00:30:11,060 --> 00:30:08,850 somewhere else we don't know how many 668 00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:11,070 structured craft are present on earth at 669 00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:14,640 any time I actually had the I was at the 670 00:30:21,530 --> 00:30:17,520 S at the seu meeting in Huntsville last 671 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:21,540 year during Lou elizondo's talk I had 672 00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:23,010 the chance to ask him that question I 673 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:25,500 asked if they if they had any estimates 674 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:27,570 as to how many crush I mean how many 675 00:30:34,850 --> 00:30:29,490 craft were present on earth at any time 676 00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:34,860 and they he didn't have an answer for me 677 00:30:41,930 --> 00:30:38,100 in fact he wanted to ask that question 678 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:41,940 himself and so we don't know are there 679 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:43,710 ten of these things on earth that 680 00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:45,510 present on earth at any time are there a 681 00:30:49,940 --> 00:30:47,070 hundred of them are a thousand of them 682 00:30:51,620 --> 00:30:49,950 10,000 we don't know but if you have if 683 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:51,630 you have a large number of them 684 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:53,970 you know a thousand of these things on 685 00:30:58,220 --> 00:30:56,010 earth at any time then the probabilities 686 00:30:59,960 --> 00:30:58,230 for a crash go up you know so the 687 00:31:01,550 --> 00:30:59,970 probability of having a crash is gonna 688 00:31:05,210 --> 00:31:01,560 be proportional to the number of objects 689 00:31:08,669 --> 00:31:05,220 flying around right and and especially 690 00:31:12,539 --> 00:31:08,679 especially in the new in New Mexico you 691 00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:12,549 at the time in New Mexico that's you 692 00:31:16,769 --> 00:31:14,799 know this is the 1940s and so we were 693 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:16,779 developing nuclear weapons at the time 694 00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:19,570 we were doing missile tests we were 695 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:22,990 doing testing a lot of things and from 696 00:31:27,869 --> 00:31:25,450 some of the government documents that 697 00:31:30,539 --> 00:31:27,879 I've seen you know we knew that there 698 00:31:33,950 --> 00:31:30,549 were these unidentified objects present 699 00:31:36,989 --> 00:31:33,960 and they had actually contracted 700 00:31:39,779 --> 00:31:36,999 contracted people to look for them and 701 00:31:41,879 --> 00:31:39,789 so but we don't know you know it's 702 00:31:45,539 --> 00:31:41,889 possible they were find actively trying 703 00:31:47,159 --> 00:31:45,549 to shoot them down and or take them down 704 00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:47,169 in some way and if that's by if that's 705 00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:51,369 if that's the situation then then they 706 00:31:55,139 --> 00:31:53,679 might not have just just Kraft we 707 00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:55,149 crashed we might have actually brought 708 00:31:59,070 --> 00:31:57,730 some of these things down so there's a 709 00:32:02,759 --> 00:31:59,080 lot of there's a lot of questions here 710 00:32:06,539 --> 00:32:02,769 but it's they really depend on you know 711 00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:06,549 what we actually know about whether 712 00:32:09,899 --> 00:32:08,110 these things are really craft whether 713 00:32:11,970 --> 00:32:09,909 how many are present on earth at any 714 00:32:14,970 --> 00:32:11,980 time what day what these crafts are up 715 00:32:18,029 --> 00:32:14,980 to they're often seen in sensitive areas 716 00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:18,039 we know about you know incursions and 717 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:20,769 nuclear weapon sites are quite prevalent 718 00:32:25,889 --> 00:32:24,610 and you know so if these things are 719 00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:25,899 coming to earth and hanging out in 720 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:29,110 sensitive military areas well you might 721 00:32:34,009 --> 00:32:30,970 expect some of you to crash that's gonna 722 00:32:37,499 --> 00:32:34,019 happen I know there was a correlation 723 00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:37,509 early on that you know perhaps a radar 724 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:40,840 effected somehow affected them you know 725 00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:42,850 I mean of course this is all speculation 726 00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:45,070 of course yeah it's all speculation 727 00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:48,070 there's it's not it's not clear what the 728 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:49,990 situation that's not clear it's not 729 00:32:53,580 --> 00:32:51,490 clear what the situation is and it's not 730 00:32:56,730 --> 00:32:53,590 clear how many crashes are actually have 731 00:32:59,789 --> 00:32:56,740 been either you know if any so it's it's 732 00:33:01,680 --> 00:32:59,799 it's all this is all very problematic 733 00:33:04,820 --> 00:33:01,690 because we don't have a lot of evidence 734 00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:04,830 we have a lot of anecdotal evidence and 735 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:08,350 you've got what I call a low low signal 736 00:33:12,049 --> 00:33:09,730 in the noise ratio where you've got a 737 00:33:16,820 --> 00:33:12,059 lot of noise that's coming from 738 00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:16,830 misinformation disinformation mistakes 739 00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:21,849 people you know promoting fraud and and 740 00:33:26,430 --> 00:33:23,950 making up stories and all sorts of 741 00:33:30,330 --> 00:33:26,440 things so it's really it's a horrible 742 00:33:32,969 --> 00:33:30,340 mess that you really can't begin to 743 00:33:34,859 --> 00:33:32,979 resolve by you know looking at past 744 00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:34,869 cases the only way to really get 745 00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:38,080 anywhere is to go out and try to collect 746 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:41,289 data on these things ourselves right no 747 00:33:45,330 --> 00:33:43,210 currently I think that's the only way to 748 00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:45,340 proceed at this point if you try to go 749 00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:48,159 chase past cases and you know interview 750 00:33:51,779 --> 00:33:50,080 witnesses and that yeah it's fun and 751 00:33:53,299 --> 00:33:51,789 interesting but scientifically it's not 752 00:33:55,879 --> 00:33:53,309 going to get you anywhere 753 00:33:58,229 --> 00:33:55,889 scientifically yeah the magic word and 754 00:34:00,119 --> 00:33:58,239 you know I never thought of the numbers 755 00:34:01,649 --> 00:34:00,129 game when you're talking to how many are 756 00:34:03,239 --> 00:34:01,659 here it's now I'm gonna ask you a 757 00:34:05,310 --> 00:34:03,249 question I've asked a number of people 758 00:34:10,260 --> 00:34:05,320 on this show especially with your 759 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:10,270 background there is there are people 760 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:14,770 that have speculated that or the science 761 00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:16,690 has speculated that there could be you 762 00:34:22,609 --> 00:34:20,440 know possibly millions of planets out 763 00:34:25,819 --> 00:34:22,619 there in just this maybe even billions 764 00:34:29,849 --> 00:34:25,829 with intelligent life in just this 765 00:34:32,099 --> 00:34:29,859 galaxy and why why would they be coming 766 00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:32,109 here that's the curse they have what 767 00:34:38,419 --> 00:34:34,089 makes us so special if we're just part 768 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:38,429 of a chain of say up to you know 769 00:34:43,769 --> 00:34:40,770 millions of planets that have 770 00:34:47,879 --> 00:34:43,779 intelligent life you know perhaps beyond 771 00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:47,889 ours why not come here how much money do 772 00:34:56,399 --> 00:34:51,510 we spend studying things on earth 773 00:34:59,010 --> 00:34:56,409 exactly I mean all of our scientific 774 00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:59,020 research happens on earth and we still 775 00:35:02,849 --> 00:35:01,359 are finding things to look at I don't I 776 00:35:04,890 --> 00:35:02,859 don't see any problem with coming with 777 00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:04,900 earth earth is fascinating earth is 778 00:35:10,170 --> 00:35:06,520 interesting and it's interesting to us 779 00:35:11,819 --> 00:35:10,180 who live here somebody who doesn't live 780 00:35:15,660 --> 00:35:11,829 here is going to find it equally and 781 00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:15,670 more fascinating than that where we've 782 00:35:19,260 --> 00:35:17,470 been fascinated with Mars we spent 783 00:35:25,049 --> 00:35:19,270 billions of dollars trying to get to 784 00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:25,059 Mars and why Mars you know from you know 785 00:35:28,660 --> 00:35:26,750 photos from the surface 786 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:28,670 that interesting but we're still we're 787 00:35:33,820 --> 00:35:31,850 still fascinated by it I think that you 788 00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:33,830 know if we found life on another planet 789 00:35:39,130 --> 00:35:36,800 in another nearby solar system we'd be 790 00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:39,140 working like crazy to get there and we'd 791 00:35:43,150 --> 00:35:40,760 be collecting all the data we could from 792 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:43,160 that place and if we found life on 793 00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:45,410 tencel different solar systems nearby 794 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:46,880 we'd be color trying to collect data on 795 00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:49,370 all ten of them I don't I think that 796 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:52,310 it's really naive to assume that earth 797 00:35:59,140 --> 00:35:56,690 is uninteresting was there was Stanton 798 00:36:02,050 --> 00:35:59,150 Freeman had complained about I think one 799 00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:02,060 physicist had talked about a UFO 800 00:36:07,710 --> 00:36:05,270 sighting where the where somebody saw 801 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:07,720 beings walking around in a meadow 802 00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:09,650 investigating doing something in a 803 00:36:14,830 --> 00:36:12,350 meadow and the in the scientist said why 804 00:36:17,050 --> 00:36:14,840 would you come all this way to walk to 805 00:36:18,430 --> 00:36:17,060 poke around in a meadow I thought where 806 00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:18,440 else are you gonna poke around what an 807 00:36:21,130 --> 00:36:19,940 interesting place that would be if you 808 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:21,140 were from another world 809 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:24,410 I would spend I could spend hours in an 810 00:36:30,580 --> 00:36:28,730 alien meadow so I don't I don't know why 811 00:36:32,010 --> 00:36:30,590 people's brains kind of go out the 812 00:36:35,380 --> 00:36:32,020 window when they encounter this problem 813 00:36:37,090 --> 00:36:35,390 earth is interesting and it's going to 814 00:36:39,870 --> 00:36:37,100 be more interesting for somebody who 815 00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:39,880 isn't from here I don't see a problem 816 00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:41,030 okay 817 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:42,350 that's that's really a good point I I 818 00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:45,050 appreciate that I would think that you 819 00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:47,270 know possibly where they're from could 820 00:36:52,780 --> 00:36:50,240 be equally interesting as well possibly 821 00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:52,790 and yeah you know what do we get how 822 00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:54,560 many millions of species we have on 823 00:37:01,900 --> 00:36:58,610 earth but there's a lot and there's a 824 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:01,910 lot going on and and it's certainly by 825 00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:04,730 us very diverse which is interesting now 826 00:37:10,060 --> 00:37:07,910 if if there is life on Mars which we we 827 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:10,070 haven't resolved that issue yet it's 828 00:37:17,020 --> 00:37:14,210 very probably microbial and and the 829 00:37:18,910 --> 00:37:17,030 diversity there is it clearly isn't as 830 00:37:22,420 --> 00:37:18,920 great as it is on earth we know that 831 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:22,430 much so so even though life may exist 832 00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:24,910 all over the universe and maybe maybe 833 00:37:32,260 --> 00:37:28,400 intelligent life all over we don't know 834 00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:32,270 how diverse you know many of the other 835 00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:33,830 planets are we still don't we still 836 00:37:38,290 --> 00:37:36,800 wouldn't know how unique earth is you 837 00:37:40,059 --> 00:37:38,300 know until we have some idea of what 838 00:37:42,759 --> 00:37:40,069 life is like elsewhere 839 00:37:45,249 --> 00:37:42,769 what various things can happen it could 840 00:37:49,479 --> 00:37:45,259 turn out that earth is a very still a 841 00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:49,489 very unique place we run we run between 842 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:52,880 this this bipolar way of looking at us 843 00:37:57,130 --> 00:37:55,729 and looking at humanity and looking at 844 00:37:59,229 --> 00:37:57,140 earth you know on one hand where the 845 00:38:00,759 --> 00:37:59,239 center of the universe and then we 846 00:38:02,229 --> 00:38:00,769 realize oh we're not and we kind of flip 847 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:02,239 over to how we're probably not 848 00:38:06,339 --> 00:38:03,890 interesting at all and the next minute 849 00:38:08,890 --> 00:38:06,349 we're we're we're the center of the 850 00:38:12,099 --> 00:38:08,900 universe again and I it's such a binary 851 00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:12,109 way of looking at things and it isn't 852 00:38:18,579 --> 00:38:15,670 binary these places are all interesting 853 00:38:20,829 --> 00:38:18,589 speaking of binary since since you have 854 00:38:24,009 --> 00:38:20,839 your best route mostly most solar 855 00:38:25,299 --> 00:38:24,019 systems are aren't aren't they and how 856 00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:25,309 would that how would you think that 857 00:38:33,099 --> 00:38:28,400 would affect a life evolving differently 858 00:38:36,029 --> 00:38:33,109 oh that's a good question we don't this 859 00:38:40,509 --> 00:38:36,039 is really an exciting era in human 860 00:38:43,870 --> 00:38:40,519 discovery because we are especially as 861 00:38:47,019 --> 00:38:43,880 an astronomer and astrophysicist I 862 00:38:48,999 --> 00:38:47,029 really feel that we are for the first 863 00:38:50,650 --> 00:38:49,009 time really beginning to get an 864 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:50,660 understanding of what the universe is 865 00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:54,890 actually like and the you know the 866 00:39:00,009 --> 00:38:57,920 exploration of the solar system really 867 00:39:03,459 --> 00:39:00,019 happened during my lifetime I was born 868 00:39:06,430 --> 00:39:03,469 in May of 1965 and the 1st Mariner flyby 869 00:39:10,779 --> 00:39:06,440 of Jupiter or of Jupiter sorry of Mars 870 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:10,789 happened in July July 15th of 1965 I 871 00:39:15,279 --> 00:39:13,249 believe and then it was literally 15 872 00:39:18,910 --> 00:39:15,289 years later out to the day that we had 873 00:39:21,370 --> 00:39:18,920 New Horizons fly past Pluto so so the 874 00:39:23,229 --> 00:39:21,380 last 50 years we've explored our solar 875 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:23,239 system this that's phenomenal 876 00:39:27,189 --> 00:39:25,249 and it was it's been a great pleasure 877 00:39:29,890 --> 00:39:27,199 and privilege to be alive during that 878 00:39:32,380 --> 00:39:29,900 time and what should happen but now 879 00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:32,390 we're starting to find out about planets 880 00:39:35,949 --> 00:39:33,680 around other stars and what are other 881 00:39:38,049 --> 00:39:35,959 star systems like and we're trying to be 882 00:39:39,959 --> 00:39:38,059 able to look at spectra from these 883 00:39:41,890 --> 00:39:39,969 planets and identify chemical 884 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:41,900 constituents and we might be able to 885 00:39:46,420 --> 00:39:43,910 identify an oxygen atmosphere at some 886 00:39:48,579 --> 00:39:46,430 point and say that that world's probably 887 00:39:51,099 --> 00:39:48,589 alive like Earth and and it's very 888 00:39:52,509 --> 00:39:51,109 exciting tonight and I think that it's 889 00:39:53,090 --> 00:39:52,519 important to realize that we really 890 00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:53,100 don't know 891 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:55,110 anything yet we don't really have any 892 00:39:59,660 --> 00:39:57,450 you know we have some ideas of what it's 893 00:40:01,610 --> 00:39:59,670 like out there but those ideas are 894 00:40:04,490 --> 00:40:01,620 really very naive and I think that's 895 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:04,500 important to keep in mind exactly and do 896 00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:06,810 you think the James Webb telescope is 897 00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:10,500 going to be able to have us discover 898 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:15,350 more ways to look for life out there yes 899 00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:17,970 you know each of these telescopes going 900 00:40:22,430 --> 00:40:20,400 up and and new missions that are 901 00:40:27,830 --> 00:40:22,440 currently on the drawing board are going 902 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:27,840 to be be very very interesting and very 903 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:31,890 exciting we're going to there's a lot to 904 00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:35,010 learn it's gonna be very very thrilling 905 00:40:40,130 --> 00:40:37,800 right I was uh I was thrilled to 906 00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:40,140 actually get to see that being worked on 907 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:44,520 with men in white suits and you know 908 00:40:48,740 --> 00:40:46,770 protective here working on that at 909 00:40:51,710 --> 00:40:48,750 Goddard I think it was four years ago 910 00:40:53,780 --> 00:40:51,720 now that's about I was a Goddard about 911 00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:53,790 four years ago too and I got to see it 912 00:40:59,330 --> 00:40:56,990 as well it was really exciting exciting 913 00:41:05,750 --> 00:40:59,340 things gonna be in space and I'm gonna 914 00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:05,760 be analyzing data from it and you know 915 00:41:10,070 --> 00:41:07,740 actually I was down there visiting a 916 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:10,080 race stanford who listens to the show a 917 00:41:16,250 --> 00:41:14,010 lot and his his wife was working over at 918 00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:16,260 goddard and i was surprised that a 919 00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:18,420 couple of people there actually are 920 00:41:22,460 --> 00:41:20,430 interested in the UFO topic and and 921 00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:22,470 talked about it openly what was it like 922 00:41:28,220 --> 00:41:24,510 when you were at NASA did that subject 923 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:28,230 ever come up no it didn't come up and 924 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:30,210 the few times I tried to bring it up it 925 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:31,890 was really pretty much shot down as 926 00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:34,650 being ridiculous and I you know I always 927 00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:37,740 felt kind of bad about that I had hoped 928 00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:40,560 that people would be more open to that 929 00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:43,800 possibility and interested but but it 930 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:45,660 didn't really didn't appear to be the 931 00:42:00,500 --> 00:41:53,370 case yeah a very interesting person and 932 00:42:02,990 --> 00:42:00,510 I also have things even doubly more 933 00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:03,000 exciting oh that is that is I hope he's 934 00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:05,820 listening tonight and he calls in I'll 935 00:42:11,819 --> 00:42:06,230 give 936 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:13,870 definitely definitely arrange that I'm 937 00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:15,770 sure he'd love to be in contact with you 938 00:42:20,290 --> 00:42:16,310 as well 939 00:42:22,810 --> 00:42:20,300 I know his discoveries in those the 940 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:22,820 footprints I think there was unknown 941 00:42:28,690 --> 00:42:26,450 species he discovered and just amazing 942 00:42:33,250 --> 00:42:28,700 and actually right near the grounds of 943 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:33,260 Goddard which is really what really 944 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:36,290 amazes me about that is that the the 945 00:42:42,490 --> 00:42:38,810 rocks in that area were not fought to be 946 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:42,500 able to have fossils and it really just 947 00:42:47,740 --> 00:42:45,170 shows how you know we can fall under 948 00:42:49,810 --> 00:42:47,750 these traps of thinking that we know we 949 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:49,820 know the situation scientifically where 950 00:42:54,670 --> 00:42:52,490 we really don't if you don't look into 951 00:42:56,380 --> 00:42:54,680 these things you you know if you don't 952 00:43:00,400 --> 00:42:56,390 study something you are going to make 953 00:43:02,260 --> 00:43:00,410 the discovery and you know and he you 954 00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:02,270 know when he stumbled on you know some 955 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:04,160 of these footprints and you know had the 956 00:43:10,089 --> 00:43:06,530 visual acuity to recognize that wait a 957 00:43:12,130 --> 00:43:10,099 minute that's a footprint and and wasn't 958 00:43:14,319 --> 00:43:12,140 concerned about the you know the the 959 00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:14,329 type of rocks and whether that was you 960 00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:15,950 know thought to be possible or not and 961 00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:18,680 and that allowed him to make the 962 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:20,000 breakthrough which is really fantastic 963 00:43:24,670 --> 00:43:22,730 but and they think that's a it's a good 964 00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:24,680 lesson that we have to keep learning you 965 00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:27,680 we it's very easy to assume that we know 966 00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:31,760 everything already and we don't we've 967 00:43:41,319 --> 00:43:33,470 always thought that as a species heaven 968 00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:41,329 we yeah it's very egotistical yeah like 969 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:43,310 we are the center of the universe and 970 00:43:48,599 --> 00:43:46,010 the Sun goes around us and you know it 971 00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:48,609 just keeps going on and on or not and 972 00:43:53,890 --> 00:43:52,310 and and just just to think and only I 973 00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:53,900 don't know was just over a hundred years 974 00:43:57,849 --> 00:43:55,730 ago we didn't know there was such a 975 00:44:01,530 --> 00:43:57,859 thing as other galaxies you know which 976 00:44:04,540 --> 00:44:01,540 is really amazing 977 00:44:06,220 --> 00:44:04,550 dark matter and dark energy now on the 978 00:44:08,859 --> 00:44:06,230 you know on the forefront of discovery 979 00:44:11,980 --> 00:44:08,869 you know and the Dark Matter comprises 980 00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:11,990 looks like it comprises about 70% of the 981 00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,329 universe and what that means is that we 982 00:44:19,540 --> 00:44:16,880 are ignorant as to what 70% of the 983 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:19,550 universe is even made of which is 984 00:44:27,340 --> 00:44:23,930 mind boggling so it's yes this is it's 985 00:44:28,990 --> 00:44:27,350 very humbling do you think um you know 986 00:44:30,970 --> 00:44:29,000 not to take too much of a jack from the 987 00:44:32,890 --> 00:44:30,980 topic that we're talking about but yeah 988 00:44:35,860 --> 00:44:32,900 I think there are possibilities that 989 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:35,870 perhaps we don't know ray Stanford just 990 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:40,210 wrote he is listening wonderful hello so 991 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:42,170 hopefully he'll be one of the callers 992 00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:46,130 when we take calls coming up do you 993 00:44:51,730 --> 00:44:49,520 think that there is a possibility that 994 00:44:53,860 --> 00:44:51,740 we don't know something about gravity or 995 00:44:57,010 --> 00:44:53,870 something else that makes us think that 996 00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:57,020 there is dark matter and dark energy out 997 00:45:00,490 --> 00:44:58,880 there I mean do you think it's it could 998 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:00,500 be a flaw in the way we're looking at 999 00:45:05,650 --> 00:45:02,930 things or do you think it's actually has 1000 00:45:08,770 --> 00:45:05,660 to be something I think the situation is 1001 00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:08,780 very delicate because we have a great 1002 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:11,440 deal of evidence that there's something 1003 00:45:19,570 --> 00:45:16,730 amiss with gravity and that at the 1004 00:45:21,730 --> 00:45:19,580 moment it appears that the explanation 1005 00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:21,740 that there's other mass out there that 1006 00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:23,390 we don't know anything about invisible 1007 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:24,710 notes that we don't know anything about 1008 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:26,450 appears to be the most plausible 1009 00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:30,410 explanation where I would urge caution 1010 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:34,910 is the fact that we have several 1011 00:45:39,010 --> 00:45:37,130 different pieces of evidence you know 1012 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:39,020 one is the you know the bullet cluster 1013 00:45:45,370 --> 00:45:42,170 and and the behavior of the visible 1014 00:45:50,350 --> 00:45:45,380 matter there and you have other you have 1015 00:45:52,350 --> 00:45:50,360 other situations as well we have made 1016 00:45:54,270 --> 00:45:52,360 the assumption that those are all 1017 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:54,280 representative of the same phenomenon 1018 00:46:00,430 --> 00:45:57,650 and it's possible that they're not all 1019 00:46:02,770 --> 00:46:00,440 the same phenomenon there could be there 1020 00:46:04,510 --> 00:46:02,780 could be wrong on many points there 1021 00:46:05,890 --> 00:46:04,520 could be a kind of matter out there that 1022 00:46:08,290 --> 00:46:05,900 we don't know anything about dark matter 1023 00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,300 it could be that we are also wrong about 1024 00:46:12,850 --> 00:46:10,640 gravity and you know it's not again it's 1025 00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:12,860 not a binary situation and I think that 1026 00:46:18,340 --> 00:46:15,110 that's something to keep in mind when 1027 00:46:20,890 --> 00:46:18,350 you go forward in these directions most 1028 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:20,900 people that have your background are 1029 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:23,930 pretty solid on the Big Bang Theory and 1030 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:33,440 and there really can't be as far as weak 1031 00:46:38,359 --> 00:46:34,650 figure out there can't be any other 1032 00:46:42,970 --> 00:46:38,369 answer for how things begin but it is 1033 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:42,980 still if you really dissect that it's 1034 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:46,410 how can something start from basically 1035 00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:48,450 nothing type of thing it's a bizarre 1036 00:46:57,380 --> 00:46:54,150 situation at that level it's a bizarre 1037 00:46:59,300 --> 00:46:57,390 theory you know even even even as a 1038 00:47:01,460 --> 00:46:59,310 theorist looking at this it's bizarre 1039 00:47:03,380 --> 00:47:01,470 that you could have you know this whole 1040 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:03,390 universe come out of a quantum 1041 00:47:08,900 --> 00:47:06,450 fluctuation you know I would I guess I 1042 00:47:10,849 --> 00:47:08,910 would worried that any other quantum 1043 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:10,859 fluctuation could create another 1044 00:47:15,260 --> 00:47:13,050 universe that maybe time you know what 1045 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:15,270 that might do to this one or not I you 1046 00:47:21,319 --> 00:47:16,770 know you worry about these things and 1047 00:47:24,589 --> 00:47:21,329 because it is bizarre the the facts that 1048 00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:24,599 you know there's a lot of evidence that 1049 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:26,940 gives you faith in that theory though 1050 00:47:32,089 --> 00:47:29,490 and that's you know the fact that you 1051 00:47:36,020 --> 00:47:32,099 know the galaxies are the universe is 1052 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:36,030 expanding you run it backwards and it 1053 00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:38,130 will contract right and so it came from 1054 00:47:42,170 --> 00:47:39,780 something that was much more compact 1055 00:47:51,530 --> 00:47:42,180 that's clear you know you can calculate 1056 00:47:54,589 --> 00:47:51,540 the you can calculate the expected the 1057 00:47:56,780 --> 00:47:54,599 expected amounts of hydrogen and helium 1058 00:47:58,730 --> 00:47:56,790 and other elements in the universe you 1059 00:48:02,660 --> 00:47:58,740 know from the theory and those those do 1060 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:02,670 agree I was talking to another another 1061 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:05,730 physicist today who's looking at data 1062 00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:10,530 from LIGO and where we found that there 1063 00:48:18,050 --> 00:48:12,569 are a lot of black holes out there which 1064 00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:18,060 is really surprising to me and it turns 1065 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:20,460 out that from you know from one of the 1066 00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:23,010 phase transitions that you get from the 1067 00:48:28,910 --> 00:48:26,040 Big Bang that you can relate to quantum 1068 00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:28,920 chromodynamics you can actually estimate 1069 00:48:34,010 --> 00:48:32,160 the masses of these primordial black 1070 00:48:35,809 --> 00:48:34,020 holes and they come out the estimates 1071 00:48:38,930 --> 00:48:35,819 come out to be about 25 solar masses 1072 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:38,940 which is what we're finding you know in 1073 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:41,490 the data from the new gravitational wave 1074 00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:45,890 detectors from lega so you know that so 1075 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:47,990 there's a lot of evidence that we've got 1076 00:48:53,410 --> 00:48:51,890 a lot right about the Big Bang where it 1077 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:53,420 came from you know what happens at that 1078 00:48:59,530 --> 00:48:56,090 singularity is a is a big mystery you 1079 00:49:01,930 --> 00:48:59,540 know is that is that a quantum 1080 00:49:04,690 --> 00:49:01,940 fluctuation is it an act of creation is 1081 00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:04,700 it you know nobody knows and we probably 1082 00:49:09,610 --> 00:49:08,240 will never know but it's you're right 1083 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:09,620 here right it's very interesting 1084 00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:13,970 question and you know did time begin in 1085 00:49:19,630 --> 00:49:16,430 I mean that's one of the things that's 1086 00:49:23,770 --> 00:49:19,640 that's the idea and space both began 1087 00:49:26,730 --> 00:49:23,780 then so asking what was before is in 1088 00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:26,740 some sense things get very very 1089 00:49:32,290 --> 00:49:30,710 complicated from that perspective we're 1090 00:49:35,550 --> 00:49:32,300 going into break in about one minute 1091 00:49:37,420 --> 00:49:35,560 here but since we're on this topic just 1092 00:49:40,180 --> 00:49:37,430 one of the things that you just 1093 00:49:43,090 --> 00:49:40,190 mentioned black holes in one of the IR - 1094 00:49:44,770 --> 00:49:43,100 an astronomer about black holes because 1095 00:49:48,550 --> 00:49:44,780 I think they're fascinating and one of 1096 00:49:50,980 --> 00:49:48,560 the things that I realized only like a 1097 00:49:54,310 --> 00:49:50,990 year ago or maybe even less was that a 1098 00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:54,320 black hole can't really be have any more 1099 00:49:59,080 --> 00:49:56,960 gravity than what was there initially 1100 00:50:00,700 --> 00:49:59,090 like for instance a collapsed star can 1101 00:50:03,460 --> 00:50:00,710 only have as a mount amount of gravity 1102 00:50:06,820 --> 00:50:03,470 as a collapsed star generally speaking 1103 00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:06,830 do these things move through space or 1104 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:08,710 there are some that are moving through 1105 00:50:29,230 --> 00:50:27,170 space well you can't so - okay so all 1106 00:50:32,140 --> 00:50:29,240 right let me just ask it this way then 1107 00:50:34,750 --> 00:50:32,150 say that there was a black hole that 1108 00:50:39,940 --> 00:50:34,760 this collapse of a star became a black 1109 00:50:43,150 --> 00:50:39,950 hole would that yeah there was no reason 1110 00:50:45,130 --> 00:50:43,160 for that to move any more than it would 1111 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:45,140 have when it was the Sun is would there 1112 00:50:53,740 --> 00:50:50,330 be any reason of her to move if you had 1113 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:53,750 a star that then went supernova and then 1114 00:50:57,970 --> 00:50:55,610 collapsed into a black hole it would be 1115 00:50:59,260 --> 00:50:57,980 continued to be moving relative to other 1116 00:51:03,160 --> 00:50:59,270 things at that same 1117 00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:03,170 today so yeah wouldn't change it 1118 00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:05,200 wouldn't change okay all right well 1119 00:51:09,010 --> 00:51:07,369 that's that's probably enough people 1120 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:09,020 when I hear about black holes and all 1121 00:51:14,530 --> 00:51:11,930 that stuff anyway so we're we're gonna 1122 00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:14,540 go into the break so hang in everyone 1123 00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:16,640 we'll be right back right after the east 1124 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:18,740 messages and welcome back my guest 1125 00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:22,970 tonight is Kevin knuth PhD and we were 1126 00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:25,610 talking about the dreaded black holes 1127 00:51:31,540 --> 00:51:28,250 hope they don't find our solar system 1128 00:51:33,940 --> 00:51:31,550 and wipe us out someday you know before 1129 00:51:35,710 --> 00:51:33,950 we talkin about other things just just 1130 00:51:38,260 --> 00:51:35,720 one other thing when we're talking about 1131 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:38,270 the Big Bang do you think it's a 1132 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:40,850 possibility that it could be a cycle 1133 00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:42,890 that's happened before and can happen 1134 00:51:46,330 --> 00:51:43,310 again 1135 00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:46,340 like expansion and then maybe 1136 00:51:54,750 --> 00:51:49,760 contraction and you know I mean anything 1137 00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:54,760 possible everything is possible 1138 00:52:00,460 --> 00:51:57,770 anything's possible it's a we just don't 1139 00:52:02,140 --> 00:52:00,470 know and that's been proposed so it's 1140 00:52:04,690 --> 00:52:02,150 it's an interesting question 1141 00:52:07,870 --> 00:52:04,700 we don't probably won't ever really know 1142 00:52:09,609 --> 00:52:07,880 well yeah one of the things that's kind 1143 00:52:12,430 --> 00:52:09,619 of depressing is to find out that 1144 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:12,440 everything might everything might 1145 00:52:18,190 --> 00:52:15,410 completely fall apart you know all all 1146 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:18,200 the male just spread apart and 1147 00:52:27,790 --> 00:52:24,290 everything I don't care how many billion 1148 00:52:30,820 --> 00:52:27,800 years it is from now you know it would 1149 00:52:35,620 --> 00:52:30,830 just be hard to it still could be 1150 00:52:38,830 --> 00:52:35,630 depressing to think about yeah anyway 1151 00:52:40,510 --> 00:52:38,840 let's get into your I want to get into a 1152 00:52:42,250 --> 00:52:40,520 couple things in this part of the show 1153 00:52:46,859 --> 00:52:42,260 before we take calls and a half hour and 1154 00:52:50,530 --> 00:52:46,869 that is the characteristics of these 1155 00:52:52,510 --> 00:52:50,540 anomalous vehicles can you get into that 1156 00:52:55,050 --> 00:52:52,520 kind of in a nutshell and and what you 1157 00:52:58,420 --> 00:52:55,060 came up with in that white paper right 1158 00:53:03,070 --> 00:52:58,430 so we looked at in that paper I looked 1159 00:53:06,550 --> 00:53:03,080 at several cases from two of the cases 1160 00:53:09,340 --> 00:53:06,560 where there was you know where there was 1161 00:53:11,069 --> 00:53:09,350 radar data or for the infrared images 1162 00:53:14,940 --> 00:53:11,079 from the 1163 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:14,950 encounters in 2004 and we also had a 1164 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:18,130 case from Graham Bethune in 1951 where 1165 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:21,130 he was able to they were able to 1166 00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:24,249 describe how fast the object came up at 1167 00:53:30,299 --> 00:53:27,910 them from from the sea surface which was 1168 00:53:33,749 --> 00:53:30,309 then corroborated later as it as it left 1169 00:53:36,089 --> 00:53:33,759 by by radar from Newfoundland so so I 1170 00:53:38,489 --> 00:53:36,099 looked at these three cases to get some 1171 00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:38,499 idea of how fast these objects are 1172 00:53:46,859 --> 00:53:42,880 accelerating so the the most striking 1173 00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:46,869 case was reported by by Kevin day who 1174 00:53:52,019 --> 00:53:50,079 was operating the radar radar on the USS 1175 00:53:55,620 --> 00:53:52,029 Princeton in the Nimitz carrier group in 1176 00:54:00,539 --> 00:53:55,630 2004 and he was tracking tracking these 1177 00:54:04,979 --> 00:54:00,549 objects operating at about 20,000 feet 1178 00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:04,989 and they would periodically drop from 1179 00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:08,440 around 28 or 20,000 feet or so down to 1180 00:54:15,150 --> 00:54:12,329 sea level and he was detecting them 1181 00:54:17,359 --> 00:54:15,160 doing this in about point seven eight 1182 00:54:20,370 --> 00:54:17,369 seconds about three quarters of a second 1183 00:54:22,979 --> 00:54:20,380 so you basically have an object 1184 00:54:27,979 --> 00:54:22,989 accelerating from vertical rest in the 1185 00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:27,989 vertical direction to sea level in in 1186 00:54:34,699 --> 00:54:30,910 three-quarters of a second so so then 1187 00:54:37,439 --> 00:54:34,709 it's basically some you know elementary 1188 00:54:39,689 --> 00:54:37,449 kinematics or physics to figure out what 1189 00:54:42,539 --> 00:54:39,699 the accelerations would have to be for 1190 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:42,549 that to happen and so he basically did 1191 00:54:47,339 --> 00:54:45,130 those calculations carefully by 1192 00:54:50,699 --> 00:54:47,349 estimating uncertainties as well and we 1193 00:54:53,999 --> 00:54:50,709 found that in that situation we had 1194 00:54:55,229 --> 00:54:54,009 these objects were had to you know at 1195 00:54:59,519 --> 00:54:55,239 minimum they would have had to 1196 00:55:02,519 --> 00:54:59,529 accelerate at about 5,300 G's of 1197 00:55:05,819 --> 00:55:02,529 acceleration to the halfway point and 1198 00:55:08,219 --> 00:55:05,829 then they'd have to decelerate 5300 G to 1199 00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:08,229 come to rest now we don't know if that's 1200 00:55:11,519 --> 00:55:09,849 the actual profile we don't know if 1201 00:55:13,650 --> 00:55:11,529 that's how they perform the maneuver 1202 00:55:16,999 --> 00:55:13,660 because we don't have detailed the 1203 00:55:19,709 --> 00:55:17,009 detailed radar information on that but 1204 00:55:21,390 --> 00:55:19,719 that estimate gives you the minimum 1205 00:55:23,069 --> 00:55:21,400 estimate for the acceleration if they 1206 00:55:24,420 --> 00:55:23,079 did something else that what that would 1207 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:24,430 imply is that some point 1208 00:55:26,850 --> 00:55:25,330 they would have had to accelerate 1209 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:26,860 greater than that so we do know that 1210 00:55:32,310 --> 00:55:30,130 that's the situation so 5000 G what is 1211 00:55:34,260 --> 00:55:32,320 5,000 G like well that's what do I mean 1212 00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:34,270 by that what I mean is it's that 1213 00:55:41,070 --> 00:55:36,250 acceleration is 5000 times the 1214 00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:41,080 acceleration of gravity so you know if 1215 00:55:44,820 --> 00:55:43,150 you imagine a fighter pilot pulling 5 1216 00:55:46,650 --> 00:55:44,830 G's you know they're experiencing 5 1217 00:55:48,150 --> 00:55:46,660 times the acceleration of gravity so if 1218 00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:48,160 you weigh a hundred pounds you're going 1219 00:55:53,090 --> 00:55:49,990 to feel like you weigh 500 pounds and 1220 00:55:56,700 --> 00:55:53,100 that's that's hard to handle 1221 00:55:58,170 --> 00:55:56,710 physiologically now what about 5,000 G 1222 00:55:59,820 --> 00:55:58,180 what would you look like what would i 1223 00:56:02,550 --> 00:55:59,830 look like standing up in one of these 1224 00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:02,560 craft accelerating at 5,000 G well all 1225 00:56:08,250 --> 00:56:04,240 right I'll be kind to myself let's say I 1226 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:08,260 weighed 200 pounds all right and the the 1227 00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,330 the so the upper half of my body would 1228 00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:16,000 then weigh about a hundred pounds so if 1229 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:18,910 I were to accelerate at 5,000 G 5,000 1230 00:56:23,340 --> 00:56:20,530 the times the acceleration of gravity 1231 00:56:25,590 --> 00:56:23,350 then that means that my upper half of my 1232 00:56:29,150 --> 00:56:25,600 body would feel like it weighed 5,000 1233 00:56:34,290 --> 00:56:29,160 times 100 pounds so so you're talking 1234 00:56:37,050 --> 00:56:34,300 that's you're talking about half a 1235 00:56:38,910 --> 00:56:37,060 million pounds so it would it would be 1236 00:56:41,550 --> 00:56:38,920 as if the upper half of my body weight 1237 00:56:43,650 --> 00:56:41,560 of half a million pounds what happens to 1238 00:56:45,420 --> 00:56:43,660 the lower half well you can guess you 1239 00:56:47,330 --> 00:56:45,430 put a half a million pounds on top of me 1240 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:47,340 and I'm going to be squished into jelly 1241 00:56:52,110 --> 00:56:49,690 there's no way there's no way I'm going 1242 00:56:56,450 --> 00:56:52,120 to survive that and so that's that's 1243 00:56:59,880 --> 00:56:56,460 that acceleration is more than shocking 1244 00:57:02,460 --> 00:56:59,890 not not only would you not expect an 1245 00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:02,470 happened into biological inhabitant to 1246 00:57:06,750 --> 00:57:03,760 be able to survive that you also 1247 00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:06,760 wouldn't expect equipment to handle it 1248 00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:08,350 and be able to handle that acceleration 1249 00:57:15,300 --> 00:57:11,680 so just to put that in perspective our 1250 00:57:19,130 --> 00:57:15,310 you know our missiles can typically only 1251 00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:19,140 handle at most 50 G of acceleration and 1252 00:57:26,010 --> 00:57:23,920 even even in those situations they they 1253 00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:26,020 can't maneuver at 50 G's of acceleration 1254 00:57:32,580 --> 00:57:28,510 they can maintain their maneuverability 1255 00:57:34,510 --> 00:57:32,590 up to about 35 G's so that's the best 1256 00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:34,520 missiles we have 1257 00:57:39,870 --> 00:57:37,280 can really only withstand 35 G's of 1258 00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:39,880 acceleration and still operate properly 1259 00:57:47,740 --> 00:57:45,680 so 5000 G's is really shocking how did 1260 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:47,750 some of the others compare well we found 1261 00:57:57,010 --> 00:57:53,450 the the the infrared video so the they 1262 00:57:59,410 --> 00:57:57,020 released the Navy really three videos of 1263 00:58:01,450 --> 00:57:59,420 these these objects and these are 1264 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:01,460 infrared videos so they're they're 1265 00:58:06,670 --> 00:58:03,290 infrared images so they're blurry and 1266 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:06,680 fuzzy which is in some sense unfortunate 1267 00:58:09,940 --> 00:58:08,450 because a lot of people looked at them 1268 00:58:11,950 --> 00:58:09,950 and said well I can't even tell what it 1269 00:58:12,790 --> 00:58:11,960 is it's some blurry fuzzy object it 1270 00:58:15,820 --> 00:58:12,800 could be anything 1271 00:58:17,740 --> 00:58:15,830 in fact I've heard several prominent 1272 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:17,750 scientists say that publicly it could be 1273 00:58:23,250 --> 00:58:21,050 anything well it can't be anything you 1274 00:58:26,290 --> 00:58:23,260 can rule things out it's not a bird 1275 00:58:28,060 --> 00:58:26,300 because the object is flying the object 1276 00:58:30,940 --> 00:58:28,070 at that point is flying in front of the 1277 00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:30,950 airplane in front of the f-18 the f-18s 1278 00:58:36,940 --> 00:58:33,650 you know going at something like 250 1279 00:58:39,970 --> 00:58:36,950 knots so it's not a seco you know you 1280 00:58:41,530 --> 00:58:39,980 know that and it's not a normal drone if 1281 00:58:43,329 --> 00:58:41,540 it's a drone because it's you know it's 1282 00:58:44,890 --> 00:58:43,339 not some little propeller driven drone 1283 00:58:46,540 --> 00:58:44,900 with some guy with remote control 1284 00:58:50,349 --> 00:58:46,550 because you're not going to have that 1285 00:58:53,620 --> 00:58:50,359 thing flying at 250 knots either so in 1286 00:58:57,940 --> 00:58:53,630 one particular video of the the nimitz 1287 00:58:59,440 --> 00:58:57,950 video there is a it's unfortunately 1288 00:59:01,359 --> 00:58:59,450 because we only got to see clips of 1289 00:59:03,790 --> 00:59:01,369 these videos and and the videos that 1290 00:59:05,170 --> 00:59:03,800 were wreak the pilots when they talked 1291 00:59:08,380 --> 00:59:05,180 about these things moving 1292 00:59:10,329 --> 00:59:08,390 I think commander favor described them 1293 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:10,339 as bouncing around as if it was a 1294 00:59:14,260 --> 00:59:12,890 ping-pong ball inside of a glass jar you 1295 00:59:16,510 --> 00:59:14,270 know so these things were really moving 1296 00:59:18,010 --> 00:59:16,520 in very strange ways we didn't get to 1297 00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:18,020 see any videos like that that maybe 1298 00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:19,760 didn't release any videos like that if 1299 00:59:23,260 --> 00:59:22,430 if they have them which is unfortunate 1300 00:59:26,890 --> 00:59:23,270 because that would have been really 1301 00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:26,900 interesting what you do see is you see 1302 00:59:31,180 --> 00:59:28,880 this in the Nimitz case you see the 1303 00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:31,190 object in front of the aircraft and then 1304 00:59:38,170 --> 00:59:36,170 eventually it moves off to the left you 1305 00:59:40,530 --> 00:59:38,180 know on the videos and the video screen 1306 00:59:45,070 --> 00:59:40,540 it is not that impressive of a maneuver 1307 00:59:47,230 --> 00:59:45,080 but the of note the missile the the 1308 00:59:47,660 --> 00:59:47,240 targeting systems do lose lockwood that 1309 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:47,670 happen 1310 00:59:51,799 --> 00:59:49,170 which is surprising because those 1311 00:59:55,010 --> 00:59:51,809 targeting systems are designed to on 1312 00:59:56,809 --> 00:59:55,020 target missiles so this thing clearly it 1313 00:59:59,180 --> 00:59:56,819 clearly was a was an unusual 1314 01:00:01,250 --> 00:59:59,190 acceleration so we we said about 1315 01:00:03,819 --> 01:00:01,260 analyzing that acceleration and we found 1316 01:00:06,799 --> 01:00:03,829 that acceleration to be about 75 GS 1317 01:00:08,539 --> 01:00:06,809 about 75 times the acceleration of 1318 01:00:11,690 --> 01:00:08,549 gravity which was which is greater than 1319 01:00:13,789 --> 01:00:11,700 the you know many of our missiles could 1320 01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:13,799 withstand their airframes weren't 1321 01:00:17,660 --> 01:00:15,359 capable of withstanding that kind of 1322 01:00:20,660 --> 01:00:17,670 acceleration so that object was clearly 1323 01:00:23,690 --> 01:00:20,670 interesting so it was exciting because 1324 01:00:26,210 --> 01:00:23,700 they they released with what visually 1325 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:26,220 looked like you know a pretty tame video 1326 01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:28,650 and we were able to show that now it's 1327 01:00:34,730 --> 01:00:31,049 not tame at all this is still an unusual 1328 01:00:41,109 --> 01:00:34,740 craft and that's really around the low 1329 01:00:44,510 --> 01:00:41,119 end of the scale we looked at the the jl 1330 01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:44,520 1628 encounter that happened in 1986 i 1331 01:00:48,170 --> 01:00:46,559 actually remember that one being on the 1332 01:00:50,870 --> 01:00:48,180 nightly news I remember watching Tom 1333 01:00:55,940 --> 01:00:50,880 Brokaw talk about it and it was very 1334 01:00:58,339 --> 01:00:55,950 excited and he basically you had a pilot 1335 01:01:00,500 --> 01:00:58,349 this Japanese airliner they were flying 1336 01:01:02,299 --> 01:01:00,510 and this is where the Chuckle factor 1337 01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:02,309 comes and they were flying bougie Lenovo 1338 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:07,710 from Paris to Tokyo so so hahaha no no 1339 01:01:11,650 --> 01:01:09,690 the pilot isn't drunk he doesn't drink 1340 01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:11,660 the booze la Nouveau let's be serious 1341 01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,359 it's in the cargo hold so the pilots 1342 01:01:19,789 --> 01:01:17,280 flying and they get they're flying 1343 01:01:22,730 --> 01:01:19,799 across Alaska and he basically 1344 01:01:25,099 --> 01:01:22,740 encounters several strange craft in 1345 01:01:28,730 --> 01:01:25,109 Alaska and and one of these objects 1346 01:01:31,579 --> 01:01:28,740 flies up at the airplane and according 1347 01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:31,589 to the pilot the object was so big he 1348 01:01:36,829 --> 01:01:32,970 couldn't see out of the front windscreen 1349 01:01:38,839 --> 01:01:36,839 without looking at the object so so when 1350 01:01:40,609 --> 01:01:38,849 you have reports like that you know very 1351 01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:40,619 often you know people will try to blow 1352 01:01:43,839 --> 01:01:42,510 them off well the pilot just didn't know 1353 01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:43,849 what he was looking at it was 1354 01:01:49,579 --> 01:01:46,710 misidentification you know he you know 1355 01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:49,589 blah blah blah well that's it's not it's 1356 01:01:54,319 --> 01:01:51,119 not nothing if it fills your entire 1357 01:01:58,460 --> 01:01:54,329 windscreen and you then have to take 1358 01:02:00,700 --> 01:01:58,470 notice and pay some attention and so he 1359 01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:00,710 actually requested to make 1360 01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:04,880 to avoid this object and this object 1361 01:02:09,550 --> 01:02:07,280 stayed some distance away I think it was 1362 01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:09,560 something like was it seven kilometers 1363 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:11,930 away or something it actually stayed 1364 01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:15,050 some distance away from the aircraft yes 1365 01:02:19,359 --> 01:02:16,960 there are point five miles away actually 1366 01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:19,369 yeah seven point five miles that's what 1367 01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:22,760 it was and but basically it would go 1368 01:02:27,099 --> 01:02:25,520 from on the radar reports radar show is 1369 01:02:29,890 --> 01:02:27,109 that going from something like one 1370 01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:29,900 o'clock to 6 o'clock in 12 seconds with 1371 01:02:34,270 --> 01:02:31,609 every weight Raider the radar sweep was 1372 01:02:36,070 --> 01:02:34,280 about 12 seconds and so this object is 1373 01:02:39,460 --> 01:02:36,080 basically you know according the radar 1374 01:02:41,859 --> 01:02:39,470 is bouncing around the aircraft the the 1375 01:02:44,290 --> 01:02:41,869 jet airplane the 747 1376 01:02:48,490 --> 01:02:44,300 so how so then the question is how do 1377 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:48,500 you get from 1 o'clock to 6 o'clock in 1378 01:02:52,900 --> 01:02:50,330 12 seconds you know when that when the 1379 01:02:54,579 --> 01:02:52,910 radius of this circle is is 7.5 miles 1380 01:02:57,130 --> 01:02:54,589 well you can estimate the accelerations 1381 01:02:59,050 --> 01:02:57,140 there so so if you estimate it going 1382 01:03:01,120 --> 01:02:59,060 straight across over either over the 1383 01:03:03,099 --> 01:03:01,130 airplane or under the airplane then you 1384 01:03:04,900 --> 01:03:03,109 get an acceleration in something like 68 1385 01:03:06,190 --> 01:03:04,910 G's of acceleration so the thing would 1386 01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:06,200 have to accelerate halfway and then 1387 01:03:10,210 --> 01:03:08,720 decelerate the other half if it goes 1388 01:03:11,740 --> 01:03:10,220 around on the circle basically goes 1389 01:03:14,490 --> 01:03:11,750 around the airplane you have to have any 1390 01:03:17,730 --> 01:03:14,500 tangential acceleration of about 84 G's 1391 01:03:21,940 --> 01:03:17,740 so again this thing is moving 1392 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:21,950 dramatically the pilot described it as 1393 01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:24,410 being about the size of it was the size 1394 01:03:31,570 --> 01:03:28,880 of several several 747s right like there 1395 01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:31,580 he said Warren Zevon's yeah like a giant 1396 01:03:36,579 --> 01:03:34,330 walnut so so basically the size of three 1397 01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:36,589 747s you're talking about something the 1398 01:03:44,230 --> 01:03:39,650 size of an aircraft carrier just flying 1399 01:03:46,359 --> 01:03:44,240 around a 747 and this went on for it's 1400 01:03:48,099 --> 01:03:46,369 went on for almost an hour 1401 01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:48,109 it wasn't hundred miles or something 1402 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:50,450 like 300 miles it wasn't a quick 1403 01:03:55,420 --> 01:03:52,730 sighting it was yeah this this went on 1404 01:03:58,359 --> 01:03:55,430 for a long period of time and you know 1405 01:03:59,920 --> 01:03:58,369 in the pilot and so so the other issue 1406 01:04:02,290 --> 01:03:59,930 that then comes up is the question of 1407 01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:02,300 air safety you know the some of these 1408 01:04:06,130 --> 01:04:04,640 encounters are not safe and the pilots 1409 01:04:07,780 --> 01:04:06,140 don't feel safe and that's that's a 1410 01:04:08,839 --> 01:04:07,790 problem if your pilot is not feeling 1411 01:04:11,749 --> 01:04:08,849 safe 1412 01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:11,759 and so there's another reason to study 1413 01:04:16,789 --> 01:04:14,640 these as well so that that acceleration 1414 01:04:19,969 --> 01:04:16,799 you know one of those accelerations the 1415 01:04:21,410 --> 01:04:19,979 68g is actually at the low scale you 1416 01:04:24,499 --> 01:04:21,420 know so we've got these craft 1417 01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:24,509 accelerating anywhere between 68 G's up 1418 01:04:29,620 --> 01:04:28,079 to 5,000 G's of acceleration and the 1419 01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:29,630 problem is we really don't know how 1420 01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:31,680 first we don't know how these things are 1421 01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:33,690 flying in the first place 1422 01:04:37,940 --> 01:04:35,729 because they don't have flight surfaces 1423 01:04:42,289 --> 01:04:37,950 they don't have obvious control surfaces 1424 01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:42,299 they don't have an obvious powerplant so 1425 01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:44,130 it's not clear you know where the where 1426 01:04:49,460 --> 01:04:45,930 the thrust is coming from to keep you 1427 01:04:51,380 --> 01:04:49,470 know to keep these things moving and and 1428 01:04:53,950 --> 01:04:51,390 that's especially evident at the 1429 01:04:56,900 --> 01:04:53,960 infrared video when you see that that 1430 01:04:59,059 --> 01:04:56,910 the tic-tac object that they describe as 1431 01:05:01,039 --> 01:04:59,069 as accelerating off to the left 1432 01:05:04,009 --> 01:05:01,049 you know if it's it's accelerating at 75 1433 01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:04,019 G and you don't see flames coming out of 1434 01:05:08,089 --> 01:05:05,609 the thing this is infrared video there's 1435 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:08,099 no extra heat being dumped into the 1436 01:05:14,029 --> 01:05:10,410 environment so how does this thing work 1437 01:05:15,410 --> 01:05:14,039 it's not clear at all and I've heard 1438 01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:15,420 criticisms you know people have 1439 01:05:19,219 --> 01:05:17,609 criticized the analysis saying oh well 1440 01:05:21,140 --> 01:05:19,229 you didn't know that it you don't really 1441 01:05:23,569 --> 01:05:21,150 know that it was 50 feet across that's 1442 01:05:25,130 --> 01:05:23,579 what the pilots described but the pilots 1443 01:05:27,769 --> 01:05:25,140 could have been wrong you know maybe it 1444 01:05:30,140 --> 01:05:27,779 was only five feet across and my answer 1445 01:05:31,819 --> 01:05:30,150 to that say well let it do the math you 1446 01:05:34,489 --> 01:05:31,829 know don't just make the argument to the 1447 01:05:36,499 --> 01:05:34,499 verb argument you know let's see let's 1448 01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:36,509 test this do the math so let's assume 1449 01:05:40,190 --> 01:05:38,910 that it's only five feet across that 1450 01:05:43,849 --> 01:05:40,200 would have put the object much closer 1451 01:05:46,459 --> 01:05:43,859 and you basically get a factor of ten 1452 01:05:51,079 --> 01:05:46,469 less acceleration so okay so the thing 1453 01:05:52,370 --> 01:05:51,089 accelerated at 7g instead of 75 G I'd 1454 01:05:54,349 --> 01:05:52,380 still like to know how you take a 1455 01:05:56,959 --> 01:05:54,359 five-foot-long object and accelerated at 1456 01:05:59,959 --> 01:05:56,969 7-7 G of acceleration without any heat 1457 01:06:01,489 --> 01:05:59,969 signature you still have this question 1458 01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:01,499 it's still there you know it doesn't go 1459 01:06:06,109 --> 01:06:04,170 away even if the thing even if they if 1460 01:06:08,269 --> 01:06:06,119 they were off on its size if they were 1461 01:06:13,069 --> 01:06:08,279 mistaken about its size by a factor of 1462 01:06:14,900 --> 01:06:13,079 ten the problem still exists so this is 1463 01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:14,910 serious it's not it's not a joke 1464 01:06:20,749 --> 01:06:18,690 and it can't be anything and you can 1465 01:06:22,450 --> 01:06:20,759 determine that by by doing the math and 1466 01:06:24,130 --> 01:06:22,460 and I can't 1467 01:06:25,930 --> 01:06:24,140 disappointing when I hear some of our 1468 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:25,940 prominent scientists you know coming on 1469 01:06:29,260 --> 01:06:27,410 saying it could be anything well none of 1470 01:06:32,620 --> 01:06:29,270 them sat down and did the math the math 1471 01:06:34,270 --> 01:06:32,630 isn't especially hard to do it's you 1472 01:06:36,660 --> 01:06:34,280 know a first-year physics student could 1473 01:06:40,750 --> 01:06:36,670 do the math in some of these cases and 1474 01:06:42,370 --> 01:06:40,760 and but we see these prominent 1475 01:06:43,900 --> 01:06:42,380 scientists making these blanket 1476 01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:43,910 statements without having done the math 1477 01:06:47,579 --> 01:06:46,130 and that's professionally that's 1478 01:06:51,130 --> 01:06:47,589 problematic 1479 01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:51,140 I'm glad you I'm glad you say that and I 1480 01:06:56,290 --> 01:06:54,290 hope if you get a chance to call them 1481 01:06:59,589 --> 01:06:56,300 out feel comfortable to call them out 1482 01:07:02,800 --> 01:06:59,599 that you do and I don't know what type 1483 01:07:05,140 --> 01:07:02,810 of situation that would be but I'm glad 1484 01:07:07,060 --> 01:07:05,150 at least you are looking into this and 1485 01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:07,070 put the effort into it after two times 1486 01:07:12,339 --> 01:07:11,089 you said the word we that so what do you 1487 01:07:17,410 --> 01:07:12,349 mean by we were there are a lot of 1488 01:07:22,030 --> 01:07:20,050 Peter reali with these with the 1489 01:07:25,810 --> 01:07:22,040 scientific coalition for you you ap 1490 01:07:30,460 --> 01:07:25,820 studies so well that's great 1491 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:30,470 you know I had a email exchange a couple 1492 01:07:36,609 --> 01:07:33,410 of days ago with PJ Hughes who was 1493 01:07:41,140 --> 01:07:36,619 involved in the Nimitz case and he 1494 01:07:43,750 --> 01:07:41,150 basically said before that I back when 1495 01:07:47,730 --> 01:07:43,760 he was on the show he was 50/50 on 1496 01:07:49,690 --> 01:07:47,740 whether it was you know special tech 1497 01:07:52,859 --> 01:07:49,700 instead of you know he's talking about 1498 01:07:56,140 --> 01:07:52,869 the tic tacs and now he says he's 660 1499 01:07:57,730 --> 01:07:56,150 6040 that he thinks ii so i contacted 1500 01:07:59,710 --> 01:07:57,740 him and you know he told me a couple 1501 01:08:01,599 --> 01:07:59,720 things to keep under my hat but he said 1502 01:08:03,220 --> 01:08:01,609 basically you know his thoughts have 1503 01:08:06,220 --> 01:08:03,230 changed that it's more likely that it 1504 01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:06,230 was text but i want to argue this or 1505 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:09,680 many things actually I don't understand 1506 01:08:13,900 --> 01:08:11,690 what tech we could possibly have today 1507 01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:13,910 that could absorb the type of G's you're 1508 01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:15,530 talking about I mean even a rock would 1509 01:08:26,260 --> 01:08:22,130 have a problem then also you talk about 1510 01:08:31,059 --> 01:08:26,270 the j al 1628 is it and when that 1511 01:08:33,490 --> 01:08:31,069 happened there was also g-forces beyond 1512 01:08:35,970 --> 01:08:33,500 what we could handle today so that was 1513 01:08:41,109 --> 01:08:35,980 back in 1996 1514 01:08:43,329 --> 01:08:41,119 1986 1986 in cases from 1951 and that 1515 01:08:50,349 --> 01:08:43,339 those estimates come out to about 1700 1516 01:08:53,140 --> 01:08:50,359 gee that's 1950 1951 so if we had any 1517 01:08:55,749 --> 01:08:53,150 tech like that back then 1518 01:09:00,720 --> 01:08:55,759 we certainly there's no way we wouldn't 1519 01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:00,730 be using it before now yeah that's my 1520 01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:03,290 you're not gonna sit on technology like 1521 01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:04,369 this for 50 years 1522 01:09:09,269 --> 01:09:06,369 that's all that's a person's career 1523 01:09:12,129 --> 01:09:09,279 nobody's gonna sit on that for 50 years 1524 01:09:14,859 --> 01:09:12,139 I'm not really pretty that's a difficult 1525 01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:14,869 argument to swallow yeah and then and 1526 01:09:18,789 --> 01:09:16,489 these things these things have been seen 1527 01:09:21,490 --> 01:09:18,799 since before we could fly in airplanes 1528 01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:21,500 so you've got that problem as well you 1529 01:09:25,629 --> 01:09:23,210 can argue about the validity of a lot of 1530 01:09:27,069 --> 01:09:25,639 those observations but I would argue 1531 01:09:27,729 --> 01:09:27,079 that they're not they're not all 1532 01:09:33,519 --> 01:09:27,739 ridiculous 1533 01:09:35,709 --> 01:09:33,529 so you've many of those observations 1534 01:09:39,249 --> 01:09:35,719 sound a lot like the ones that we have 1535 01:09:41,609 --> 01:09:39,259 you know that we've analyzed here so so 1536 01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:41,619 this is a really difficult situation 1537 01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:45,409 well thank you for doing that work that 1538 01:09:50,530 --> 01:09:48,319 paper is pretty intense of 19 pages long 1539 01:09:52,629 --> 01:09:50,540 I'm going to try it for the listener out 1540 01:09:55,209 --> 01:09:52,639 there I'm going to try to put that up in 1541 01:09:59,609 --> 01:09:55,219 the show notes on this show which will 1542 01:10:02,470 --> 01:09:59,619 be up for a week on podcast UFO comm so 1543 01:10:05,589 --> 01:10:02,480 wander over there I'll try to do that 1544 01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:05,599 this evening it's a PDF and sometimes 1545 01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:07,130 those are really hard to embed I'm gonna 1546 01:10:12,250 --> 01:10:08,690 see if I can do that on my website so 1547 01:10:15,819 --> 01:10:12,260 check it out probably starting on 1548 01:10:17,709 --> 01:10:15,829 Wednesday the 11th of this month 1549 01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:17,719 that's tomorrow I might have that up and 1550 01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:20,210 running so Graham so that will be 1551 01:10:26,950 --> 01:10:24,290 available now let's select another 1552 01:10:31,629 --> 01:10:26,960 another point especially in the bethune 1553 01:10:35,020 --> 01:10:31,639 case so that was a 1951 case the pilots 1554 01:10:37,620 --> 01:10:35,030 and passengers estimated the thing left 1555 01:10:40,419 --> 01:10:37,630 at a speed of about 1,500 miles an hour 1556 01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:40,429 that was later confirmed by the Gander 1557 01:10:46,660 --> 01:10:43,010 Center radar in Newfoundland to be 1,800 1558 01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:46,670 miles an hour and that's 1950 1951 so 1559 01:10:52,230 --> 01:10:48,850 one I did some research on the 1560 01:10:55,140 --> 01:10:52,240 and found that in 1952 two years later 1561 01:10:59,690 --> 01:10:55,150 almost two years later you had the air 1562 01:11:05,270 --> 01:10:59,700 speed record from General J Slade Nash 1563 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:05,280 flying of f-86d sabre was was made at 1564 01:11:11,610 --> 01:11:07,810 698 miles an hour that was the air speed 1565 01:11:13,650 --> 01:11:11,620 record in 1952 and radar and the pilot 1566 01:11:15,090 --> 01:11:13,660 and passengers estimated this thing to 1567 01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:15,100 be going about fifteen to eighteen 1568 01:11:20,940 --> 01:11:17,890 hundred miles an hour so these things 1569 01:11:24,540 --> 01:11:20,950 are really anomalous and and it gets and 1570 01:11:27,330 --> 01:11:24,550 their numbers to the point where it as a 1571 01:11:30,180 --> 01:11:27,340 physicist I feel a lot of skepticism you 1572 01:11:33,510 --> 01:11:30,190 have you know for the for the take the 1573 01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:33,520 the one that Kevin day tracked and saw 1574 01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:36,610 descend 20,000 feet in point seven eight 1575 01:11:42,660 --> 01:11:39,760 seconds you're talking accelerations of 1576 01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:42,670 about 5,000 G what that means is that at 1577 01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:44,650 the mid point the object has had to have 1578 01:11:49,770 --> 01:11:47,650 been going about Mach 60 and some mock 1579 01:11:51,170 --> 01:11:49,780 60 is something like forty five thousand 1580 01:11:54,660 --> 01:11:51,180 miles an hour 1581 01:11:56,580 --> 01:11:54,670 which is which is faster than our fast 1582 01:11:58,560 --> 01:11:56,590 some of our fastest spacecraft new 1583 01:12:00,420 --> 01:11:58,570 horizons that went to Pluto is only 1584 01:12:02,940 --> 01:12:00,430 going thirty five thousand miles an hour 1585 01:12:06,030 --> 01:12:02,950 so this tic-tac in less than less than a 1586 01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:06,040 third of a second accelerated to a speed 1587 01:12:11,660 --> 01:12:08,050 greater than the probe that we sent to 1588 01:12:13,890 --> 01:12:11,670 Pluto and we can also keep in mind the 1589 01:12:16,650 --> 01:12:13,900 friction of the atmosphere 1590 01:12:18,300 --> 01:12:16,660 oh well that's the big that's that is a 1591 01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:18,310 physicist that's the big worry you 1592 01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:21,280 expect there to be huge you know your 1593 01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:23,170 first your first thought is sonic boom 1594 01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:25,450 but it's going to be much more than a 1595 01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:28,510 sonic boom we estimated the the amount 1596 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:30,850 of energy release would have had to been 1597 01:12:34,710 --> 01:12:33,130 equivalent to about two hundred tomahawk 1598 01:12:38,550 --> 01:12:34,720 miss cruise missiles going off at the 1599 01:12:40,470 --> 01:12:38,560 same time well that's that's what you 1600 01:12:41,460 --> 01:12:40,480 should have seen when that happened but 1601 01:12:43,650 --> 01:12:41,470 it didn't happen 1602 01:12:44,910 --> 01:12:43,660 that's not what we saw we did the thing 1603 01:12:48,150 --> 01:12:44,920 moves through the air like the air 1604 01:12:49,170 --> 01:12:48,160 wasn't there which is really you know 1605 01:12:51,690 --> 01:12:49,180 from a physics and engineering 1606 01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:51,700 perspective really problematic in it and 1607 01:12:55,350 --> 01:12:53,890 it leads you to question the data leads 1608 01:12:58,440 --> 01:12:55,360 you to question these results you think 1609 01:13:00,510 --> 01:12:58,450 how is this even possible but but you 1610 01:13:01,979 --> 01:13:00,520 know I'm gonna die I'm gonna contend as 1611 01:13:04,350 --> 01:13:01,989 I always have but this is that 1612 01:13:06,589 --> 01:13:04,360 that we have and this is what people 1613 01:13:08,609 --> 01:13:06,599 have been reporting for years and I 1614 01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:08,619 think it's time for us to pay some 1615 01:13:14,370 --> 01:13:11,679 attention yeah and for you know someone 1616 01:13:18,180 --> 01:13:14,380 out there pondering all this think of 1617 01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:18,190 the cella bents meteor what that caused 1618 01:13:22,379 --> 01:13:20,650 blowing out windows everywhere and in 1619 01:13:24,330 --> 01:13:22,389 Russia when that came through the 1620 01:13:27,299 --> 01:13:24,340 atmosphere and that was you know that 1621 01:13:29,669 --> 01:13:27,309 was a about that same speed forty 1622 01:13:31,500 --> 01:13:29,679 thousand or so that's probably yeah it 1623 01:13:34,140 --> 01:13:31,510 couldn't have been much it can be more 1624 01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:34,150 much more than sixty thousand miles an 1625 01:13:39,330 --> 01:13:36,570 hour so you can't be much more than that 1626 01:13:40,979 --> 01:13:39,340 once you get into the 90,000 mile an 1627 01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:40,989 hour range it's going to be interesting 1628 01:13:45,959 --> 01:13:43,510 so it wouldn't that would it would have 1629 01:13:47,279 --> 01:13:45,969 to be less than that certainly right yes 1630 01:13:48,930 --> 01:13:47,289 so there's probably on that order of 1631 01:13:50,489 --> 01:13:48,940 speed and that's what you had happening 1632 01:13:52,109 --> 01:13:50,499 you know and that's that meteorite was 1633 01:13:53,370 --> 01:13:52,119 blowing out windows and entering people 1634 01:13:55,470 --> 01:13:53,380 and that's really what should have 1635 01:14:00,540 --> 01:13:55,480 happened in this case but that's not 1636 01:14:01,979 --> 01:14:00,550 what's observed and so so as like I like 1637 01:14:05,549 --> 01:14:01,989 how the British the British 1638 01:14:07,620 --> 01:14:05,559 I told calls them those people because 1639 01:14:10,410 --> 01:14:07,630 they don't know who've created these 1640 01:14:11,759 --> 01:14:10,420 craft and who they are and so assuming 1641 01:14:14,009 --> 01:14:11,769 that the assuming these are structured 1642 01:14:15,629 --> 01:14:14,019 Pete craft you know we'll call them 1643 01:14:17,970 --> 01:14:15,639 those people I like that phrase so 1644 01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:17,980 whatever those people are those people 1645 01:14:22,799 --> 01:14:20,710 are really good engineers they really 1646 01:14:24,569 --> 01:14:22,809 know what they're doing and I'd like I'd 1647 01:14:27,569 --> 01:14:24,579 like to learn I'd like to know how to do 1648 01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:27,579 this and because it's quite exciting 1649 01:14:34,140 --> 01:14:30,130 yeah there's the beam ahead - have you 1650 01:14:37,290 --> 01:14:34,150 ever heard of that of that I don't know 1651 01:14:39,689 --> 01:14:37,300 if it's a theory of technology that's 1652 01:14:41,220 --> 01:14:39,699 supposed to supposed to do something I 1653 01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:41,230 think a race stanford knows something 1654 01:14:46,979 --> 01:14:43,449 about that maybe when he calls them we 1655 01:14:48,060 --> 01:14:46,989 can ask him but we only have up you know 1656 01:14:50,430 --> 01:14:48,070 a few minutes before we're gonna be 1657 01:14:53,489 --> 01:14:50,440 turning on the phone lines so let's talk 1658 01:14:55,109 --> 01:14:53,499 about your other work constraints on 1659 01:14:57,899 --> 01:14:55,119 breakaway societies engage in 1660 01:14:59,790 --> 01:14:57,909 relativistic interstellar travel 1661 01:15:02,629 --> 01:14:59,800 what kind of how to do that in a 1662 01:15:06,450 --> 01:15:02,639 nutshell if we could possibly can 1663 01:15:08,989 --> 01:15:06,460 you can try absolutely can talk through 1664 01:15:11,879 --> 01:15:08,999 the phone calls on that go back to it 1665 01:15:14,129 --> 01:15:11,889 you never know how many we may get one 1666 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:14,139 or two phone calls when we get more we 1667 01:15:17,490 --> 01:15:15,050 never know 1668 01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:17,500 so okay why don't we get into that topic 1669 01:15:22,870 --> 01:15:20,449 yeah so one thing that had struck me is 1670 01:15:26,620 --> 01:15:22,880 that physicists have known for a long 1671 01:15:29,049 --> 01:15:26,630 time that if you could get a spacecraft 1672 01:15:31,419 --> 01:15:29,059 up to relativistic speeds and by that I 1673 01:15:33,549 --> 01:15:31,429 mean some reasonable percentage of the 1674 01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:33,559 speed of light something like you know 1675 01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:38,290 above above 30% the speed of light then 1676 01:15:43,780 --> 01:15:42,050 you can take advantage of the time 1677 01:15:45,669 --> 01:15:43,790 dilation that you get from special 1678 01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:45,679 relativity where your clocks slowed down 1679 01:15:51,700 --> 01:15:48,800 right so this is all related to the twin 1680 01:15:54,729 --> 01:15:51,710 paradox so the traveler doesn't age when 1681 01:15:57,010 --> 01:15:54,739 he comes back to earth and in that 1682 01:15:58,899 --> 01:15:57,020 problem so the idea is that once a 1683 01:16:01,689 --> 01:15:58,909 spacecraft is going fast enough they're 1684 01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:01,699 their time slows down and so you can 1685 01:16:06,069 --> 01:16:04,489 travel greater distances and for the 1686 01:16:10,149 --> 01:16:06,079 traveler it will be a shorter period of 1687 01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:10,159 time the problem is that when you turn 1688 01:16:13,629 --> 01:16:11,570 around and you come back to earth it 1689 01:16:16,899 --> 01:16:13,639 will have been a long period of time for 1690 01:16:18,370 --> 01:16:16,909 those people back on earth and so for 1691 01:16:21,819 --> 01:16:18,380 example if I could if I could travel 1692 01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:21,829 very close to the speed of light I could 1693 01:16:26,049 --> 01:16:24,050 travel to Alpha Centauri in a very short 1694 01:16:29,830 --> 01:16:26,059 period of time maybe a few hours if I 1695 01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:29,840 was going 99.999 some percent of the 1696 01:16:34,209 --> 01:16:32,690 speed of light so so I could maybe do 1697 01:16:36,220 --> 01:16:34,219 this in a few hours and then turn around 1698 01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:36,230 explore Alpha Centauri a little bit and 1699 01:16:42,189 --> 01:16:40,250 come right back and for me the the total 1700 01:16:43,839 --> 01:16:42,199 travel time would be a couple of hours 1701 01:16:46,419 --> 01:16:43,849 maybe a day or so depending on the 1702 01:16:48,450 --> 01:16:46,429 numbers we chose but because Alpha 1703 01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:48,460 Centauri is about four light years away 1704 01:16:53,049 --> 01:16:50,239 for people on earth 1705 01:16:54,700 --> 01:16:53,059 they'll have seen my trip has taken took 1706 01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:54,710 me four years to get there and then four 1707 01:16:59,290 --> 01:16:56,090 years back so eight years will have 1708 01:17:02,470 --> 01:16:59,300 passed on earth and so while while 1709 01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:02,480 relativity works for you as the traveler 1710 01:17:07,930 --> 01:17:04,880 it doesn't help everybody who has to 1711 01:17:10,209 --> 01:17:07,940 stay at home so the argument has always 1712 01:17:11,890 --> 01:17:10,219 been well yeah you could do interstellar 1713 01:17:14,589 --> 01:17:11,900 travel if you weren't fast enough but 1714 01:17:16,540 --> 01:17:14,599 you know what's the point because when 1715 01:17:20,410 --> 01:17:16,550 you come back home you know many years 1716 01:17:22,089 --> 01:17:20,420 will have passed and that's just not you 1717 01:17:24,189 --> 01:17:22,099 you can't come home in time for dinner 1718 01:17:25,990 --> 01:17:24,199 so it doesn't work in science fiction 1719 01:17:27,550 --> 01:17:26,000 stories because you want your heroes to 1720 01:17:29,260 --> 01:17:27,560 go blow up the Death Star 1721 01:17:32,830 --> 01:17:29,270 and then come back and be home in time 1722 01:17:36,370 --> 01:17:32,840 for dinner but so that that wouldn't 1723 01:17:39,130 --> 01:17:36,380 really work so the question has always 1724 01:17:41,530 --> 01:17:39,140 been so let's say you have somebody who 1725 01:17:43,090 --> 01:17:41,540 travels from you know here to the other 1726 01:17:45,790 --> 01:17:43,100 side of the galaxy and then comes back 1727 01:17:47,620 --> 01:17:45,800 again then if you go very fast close to 1728 01:17:49,210 --> 01:17:47,630 the speed of light you the traveler can 1729 01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:49,220 actually do it within you know a 1730 01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:51,890 reasonably short period of time but for 1731 01:17:56,830 --> 01:17:53,450 those who left here back honor if the 1732 01:17:59,980 --> 01:17:56,840 trip was going to take you know 150,000 1733 01:18:02,140 --> 01:17:59,990 years you know and so the question then 1734 01:18:05,230 --> 01:18:02,150 becomes well what society would do that 1735 01:18:06,940 --> 01:18:05,240 why would you bother you know Yuki so so 1736 01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:06,950 yeah so it's physically possible to 1737 01:18:14,890 --> 01:18:08,810 perform interstellar travel this way but 1738 01:18:17,110 --> 01:18:14,900 what's the point and and that I thinking 1739 01:18:18,790 --> 01:18:17,120 about that argument one day and and it 1740 01:18:21,940 --> 01:18:18,800 occurred to me I thought well the point 1741 01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:21,950 is really simple because the traveler 1742 01:18:26,260 --> 01:18:25,010 gets to do the take the trip you know if 1743 01:18:29,050 --> 01:18:26,270 the traveler doesn't care about anybody 1744 01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:29,060 back home he still gets to go on an 1745 01:18:33,190 --> 01:18:31,610 adventure he or she gets to still still 1746 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:33,200 see the other side of the galaxy and 1747 01:18:37,390 --> 01:18:34,970 yeah they don't get to share it with 1748 01:18:39,670 --> 01:18:37,400 anyone but they got to do it and so 1749 01:18:41,410 --> 01:18:39,680 would would know is it really true that 1750 01:18:43,180 --> 01:18:41,420 nobody would ever do that and I thought 1751 01:18:45,310 --> 01:18:43,190 well of course that's not true people 1752 01:18:48,730 --> 01:18:45,320 are humans are crazy humans would do it 1753 01:18:51,730 --> 01:18:48,740 to Mars yeah I'm sure I could find 1754 01:18:55,690 --> 01:18:51,740 somebody to take that trip and I'm sure 1755 01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:55,700 I could and and then it occurred to me I 1756 01:18:59,140 --> 01:18:57,290 thought but then wait a minute but if 1757 01:19:02,230 --> 01:18:59,150 you had many people who are willing to 1758 01:19:04,180 --> 01:19:02,240 do that then you could actually pull it 1759 01:19:07,390 --> 01:19:04,190 off because they could meet up and talk 1760 01:19:09,820 --> 01:19:07,400 about their adventures so they could 1761 01:19:11,950 --> 01:19:09,830 form a what I would call a breakaway 1762 01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:11,960 Society which is I don't by that term I 1763 01:19:16,870 --> 01:19:13,490 don't mean it the same way that Richard 1764 01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:16,880 Dolan means that when he uses that so 1765 01:19:20,770 --> 01:19:18,490 here it would be a society that is 1766 01:19:25,450 --> 01:19:20,780 segregated from our society and 1767 01:19:27,550 --> 01:19:25,460 basically a society of travelers and you 1768 01:19:29,110 --> 01:19:27,560 could live that way you would just have 1769 01:19:31,180 --> 01:19:29,120 to live on your spacecraft and be 1770 01:19:33,310 --> 01:19:31,190 nomadic so you basically give up the 1771 01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:33,320 idea of having a home world or a home 1772 01:19:39,190 --> 01:19:36,650 planet but you could have meetup points 1773 01:19:40,470 --> 01:19:39,200 where you arranged either prearranged or 1774 01:19:43,290 --> 01:19:40,480 you design your trips 1775 01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:43,300 that it just happens to work that you 1776 01:19:48,830 --> 01:19:44,890 will periodically meet up with fellow 1777 01:19:52,740 --> 01:19:48,840 travelers and then you could easily have 1778 01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:52,750 you know a civilization that travels 1779 01:19:59,220 --> 01:19:54,970 across the universe regularly and goes 1780 01:20:05,250 --> 01:19:59,230 great distances and still still persists 1781 01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:05,260 so I think that it's it's a little if 1782 01:20:08,790 --> 01:20:06,880 you think out of the box a bit you can 1783 01:20:10,650 --> 01:20:08,800 come up with a solution where somebody 1784 01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:10,660 would do that and you could have a 1785 01:20:14,130 --> 01:20:12,610 society that behaved that way and that 1786 01:20:15,660 --> 01:20:14,140 doesn't mean that all interstellar 1787 01:20:17,070 --> 01:20:15,670 societies would behave that way you 1788 01:20:19,470 --> 01:20:17,080 could still have societies that 1789 01:20:22,830 --> 01:20:19,480 basically colonize other worlds and just 1790 01:20:24,570 --> 01:20:22,840 slowly expand those those people might 1791 01:20:28,860 --> 01:20:24,580 not be traveling back and forth between 1792 01:20:30,630 --> 01:20:28,870 star systems regularly but so that would 1793 01:20:32,670 --> 01:20:30,640 be a different situation but you could 1794 01:20:34,440 --> 01:20:32,680 have a society where people were 1795 01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:34,450 traveling back and forth regularly at 1796 01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:37,330 very close to the speed of light if you 1797 01:20:40,410 --> 01:20:39,040 could pull that off that's now of course 1798 01:20:42,330 --> 01:20:40,420 there's all sorts of engineering 1799 01:20:43,620 --> 01:20:42,340 challenges in addition to the ones we've 1800 01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:43,630 already discussed that would be 1801 01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:48,610 problematic now is there does physics 1802 01:20:59,430 --> 01:20:56,800 allow for you to go back in time it 1803 01:21:01,400 --> 01:20:59,440 looks like according with general 1804 01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:01,410 relativity it looks like you could have 1805 01:21:08,460 --> 01:21:06,850 you could do that however you so if you 1806 01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:08,470 let's say you made a time machine where 1807 01:21:14,970 --> 01:21:12,370 you went back in time you can show that 1808 01:21:17,550 --> 01:21:14,980 that would only work you could only go 1809 01:21:20,220 --> 01:21:17,560 back in time as far up until the point 1810 01:21:22,470 --> 01:21:20,230 where you had made the time machine so 1811 01:21:24,630 --> 01:21:22,480 you can't go back in time before there 1812 01:21:28,470 --> 01:21:24,640 were time machines that were traveling 1813 01:21:30,620 --> 01:21:28,480 in time so so it's a kind of a messy 1814 01:21:35,420 --> 01:21:30,630 situation so the answer is is 1815 01:21:39,990 --> 01:21:35,430 potentially yes but with a few caveats 1816 01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:40,000 so in other words if someone did do 1817 01:21:47,670 --> 01:21:43,330 space travel and they they were so out 1818 01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:47,680 of whack with earth yet they had 1819 01:21:53,290 --> 01:21:51,730 invented a time machine then they could 1820 01:21:55,959 --> 01:21:53,300 actually go back back 1821 01:21:57,850 --> 01:21:55,969 other times I mean this is all yeah the 1822 01:22:01,299 --> 01:21:57,860 time machine would have had to exist at 1823 01:22:03,580 --> 01:22:01,309 the time that they go back to so yeah so 1824 01:22:07,500 --> 01:22:03,590 so there's been that the proposal that 1825 01:22:10,450 --> 01:22:07,510 some of these UFOs may or you IPS may be 1826 01:22:15,490 --> 01:22:10,460 the result of craft traveling back into 1827 01:22:17,799 --> 01:22:15,500 time as far as we understand it as far 1828 01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:17,809 as I understand it at this point that 1829 01:22:22,089 --> 01:22:19,610 would be possible but it would also 1830 01:22:24,220 --> 01:22:22,099 imply that we would have if we were 1831 01:22:27,490 --> 01:22:24,230 seeing that then would imply that we 1832 01:22:32,260 --> 01:22:27,500 have time machines right now and so I 1833 01:22:45,299 --> 01:22:32,270 think so that so there would be some big 1834 01:22:51,819 --> 01:22:49,629 pretty funny well yeah I mean you can 1835 01:22:54,549 --> 01:22:51,829 get as they say down the rabbit hole 1836 01:22:57,390 --> 01:22:54,559 with a lot of this stuff and and you 1837 01:23:00,010 --> 01:22:57,400 know the paradoxes and and all that it's 1838 01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:00,020 it's really fascinating I'm really 1839 01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:02,210 enjoying myself tonight just to let you 1840 01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:04,400 know that and what I think is really 1841 01:23:11,620 --> 01:23:07,010 exciting is even even if none of these 1842 01:23:13,270 --> 01:23:11,630 are extraterrestrial and they're in you 1843 01:23:15,819 --> 01:23:13,280 know even if they're just even if 1844 01:23:18,399 --> 01:23:15,829 they're just high-tech that we don't 1845 01:23:20,229 --> 01:23:18,409 know about yet then we basically right 1846 01:23:21,790 --> 01:23:20,239 now live in the Star Trek universe we 1847 01:23:25,419 --> 01:23:21,800 have the we have the possibility of 1848 01:23:27,359 --> 01:23:25,429 having space travel like they have in TV 1849 01:23:30,430 --> 01:23:27,369 shows like Star Trek or Star Wars and 1850 01:23:32,979 --> 01:23:30,440 and I think that that also is exciting 1851 01:23:36,819 --> 01:23:32,989 so even if these turn out to be American 1852 01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:36,829 special projects that implies that these 1853 01:23:41,950 --> 01:23:38,960 these things are capable of interstellar 1854 01:23:43,780 --> 01:23:41,960 travel and that's that's interesting but 1855 01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:43,790 i but I then would expect that there's 1856 01:23:50,129 --> 01:23:46,090 gonna be a lot of really pissed-off 1857 01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:50,139 aeronautical engineers thousands of them 1858 01:23:55,209 --> 01:23:53,510 who work their whole lives to develop 1859 01:23:58,240 --> 01:23:55,219 the next generation aircraft or 1860 01:24:00,069 --> 01:23:58,250 spacecraft and are gonna be really mad 1861 01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:00,079 that this technology was kept from them 1862 01:24:04,569 --> 01:24:02,510 right then that's good that's gonna be a 1863 01:24:06,220 --> 01:24:04,579 problem and it's a huge you can also 1864 01:24:06,580 --> 01:24:06,230 think of it you know our government has 1865 01:24:08,169 --> 01:24:06,590 this 1866 01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:08,179 great but it's a huge waste of money 1867 01:24:13,089 --> 01:24:10,250 it's a huge waste of money to be 1868 01:24:16,270 --> 01:24:13,099 throwing you know 19 billion dollars a 1869 01:24:18,959 --> 01:24:16,280 year at NASA so we can putz around you 1870 01:24:22,839 --> 01:24:18,969 know 125 miles above the Earth's surface 1871 01:24:24,100 --> 01:24:22,849 that's kind of silly you know so so so 1872 01:24:27,250 --> 01:24:24,110 it's really hard for me to believe that 1873 01:24:29,740 --> 01:24:27,260 these are these are tech that we possess 1874 01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:29,750 find that difficult you think the 1875 01:24:35,979 --> 01:24:32,330 government is just as puzzled with UFOs 1876 01:24:38,050 --> 01:24:35,989 as we are that's my take on it my take 1877 01:24:40,300 --> 01:24:38,060 is they they've they've collected you 1878 01:24:42,220 --> 01:24:40,310 know there are some programs in the 1879 01:24:44,260 --> 01:24:42,230 government that's collected a good bit 1880 01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:44,270 more information than any of us have 1881 01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:48,290 seen but my my impression is they don't 1882 01:24:52,870 --> 01:24:50,090 know much more about these things than 1883 01:24:57,370 --> 01:24:52,880 any of the rest of us yeah that's kind 1884 01:25:01,089 --> 01:24:57,380 of been my take all along I think I used 1885 01:25:04,510 --> 01:25:01,099 to say that I believe that some part of 1886 01:25:06,459 --> 01:25:04,520 the government possibly has more of an 1887 01:25:08,709 --> 01:25:06,469 idea about what's going on than we do 1888 01:25:11,109 --> 01:25:08,719 but I really don't know you know like I 1889 01:25:13,930 --> 01:25:11,119 said earlier it seems like the more I 1890 01:25:22,740 --> 01:25:13,940 get into this the less that I know about 1891 01:25:25,390 --> 01:25:22,750 it so I suspect if there was you know a 1892 01:25:28,359 --> 01:25:25,400 programmer a couple of programs even 1893 01:25:30,399 --> 01:25:28,369 that had a lot that had significant 1894 01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:30,409 information that we would be far more 1895 01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:31,690 worried about it 1896 01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:33,770 that would be my that would be my 1897 01:25:38,470 --> 01:25:35,810 expectation now I could I could be 1898 01:25:40,089 --> 01:25:38,480 mistaken and that may be and the 1899 01:25:43,089 --> 01:25:40,099 evidence of being mistaken about that 1900 01:25:44,859 --> 01:25:43,099 you know may be that we've got a lot of 1901 01:25:46,689 --> 01:25:44,869 people from the Navy Navy who are just 1902 01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:46,699 flummoxed that nobody cares about this 1903 01:25:52,899 --> 01:25:50,570 so so maybe maybe that is maybe it's the 1904 01:25:54,939 --> 01:25:52,909 incredulity of the whole topic is still 1905 01:25:59,950 --> 01:25:54,949 problematic I don't I don't know what 1906 01:26:03,430 --> 01:25:59,960 the situation is yeah I was I'm a fine 1907 01:26:05,649 --> 01:26:03,440 arts appraiser I was at a home in down 1908 01:26:09,580 --> 01:26:05,659 in Massachusetts and I saw Navy bumper 1909 01:26:10,270 --> 01:26:09,590 stickers on the back of a car in the 1910 01:26:13,750 --> 01:26:10,280 driveway 1911 01:26:15,399 --> 01:26:13,760 and I said to them oh so you have 1912 01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:15,409 someone in the Navy and they said 1913 01:26:20,470 --> 01:26:18,080 retired Navy and I said oh by the way 1914 01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:20,480 what do you think of you know I had the 1915 01:26:25,060 --> 01:26:22,370 because it's always it's tricky to talk 1916 01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:25,070 about me but I had the courage to ask 1917 01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:27,410 and she said I know my husband's been 1918 01:26:31,890 --> 01:26:28,970 following that he can't believe it and 1919 01:26:35,650 --> 01:26:31,900 how interesting is that and you know I 1920 01:26:38,170 --> 01:26:35,660 it is it's both baffling at the same 1921 01:26:40,180 --> 01:26:38,180 time it's it's great that they're 1922 01:26:42,430 --> 01:26:40,190 actually looking into this and I believe 1923 01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:42,440 it opens the door for people like you a 1924 01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:45,530 little wider doesn't it it really has 1925 01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:49,130 it's made it's made it easier as a 1926 01:26:55,330 --> 01:26:51,770 scientist to look at this because I 1927 01:26:57,910 --> 01:26:55,340 really you know when I have if I mention 1928 01:26:59,950 --> 01:26:57,920 this to another scientist and they you 1929 01:27:02,860 --> 01:26:59,960 know their head and throw their 1930 01:27:04,930 --> 01:27:02,870 brow a little bit and say what and I 1931 01:27:09,729 --> 01:27:04,940 just have to point and say Navy the US 1932 01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:09,739 Navy the US Navy says you know you know 1933 01:27:15,010 --> 01:27:12,010 they're not an authority on the topic 1934 01:27:17,350 --> 01:27:15,020 they do you know they do carry some 1935 01:27:20,140 --> 01:27:17,360 credibility which is you know very 1936 01:27:22,210 --> 01:27:20,150 different than Joe Schmo who came out of 1937 01:27:23,530 --> 01:27:22,220 the bar at 2:00 a.m. and saw some lights 1938 01:27:25,690 --> 01:27:23,540 in the sky it's a very different 1939 01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:25,700 situation that's right I think and 1940 01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:27,170 that's and that's really helped that's 1941 01:27:33,790 --> 01:27:29,690 helped a lot in you know people then 1942 01:27:35,890 --> 01:27:33,800 people then give you and I found other 1943 01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:35,900 scientists then give you the benefit of 1944 01:27:42,010 --> 01:27:37,850 the doubt all right you've got a few 1945 01:27:43,300 --> 01:27:42,020 minutes to convince me that allows you 1946 01:27:45,370 --> 01:27:43,310 to present some of the evidence that 1947 01:27:47,860 --> 01:27:45,380 they've not seen because because they 1948 01:27:50,860 --> 01:27:47,870 haven't looked into it and you know the 1949 01:27:53,860 --> 01:27:50,870 typical responses is that wow I didn't 1950 01:27:56,770 --> 01:27:53,870 know all of that that's amazing and then 1951 01:28:01,060 --> 01:27:56,780 the and then that's usually followed by 1952 01:28:02,500 --> 01:28:01,070 but I'm still skeptical because the way 1953 01:28:04,270 --> 01:28:02,510 that these things fly that's not 1954 01:28:06,750 --> 01:28:04,280 physically possible so how does this 1955 01:28:10,450 --> 01:28:06,760 work are you sure this isn't wrong and 1956 01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:10,460 and that leads to other but a more 1957 01:28:13,630 --> 01:28:12,050 detailed discussion and that's a 1958 01:28:15,670 --> 01:28:13,640 discussion we should be having because 1959 01:28:18,370 --> 01:28:15,680 that's we need that's how we're gonna 1960 01:28:21,940 --> 01:28:18,380 figure out what's going on as as someone 1961 01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:21,950 like yourself a scientist you have much 1962 01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:25,610 more of an a foot in the door to 1963 01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:28,370 actually talk to someone about this the 1964 01:28:33,780 --> 01:28:31,040 way you are you know it just it just 1965 01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:33,790 works you know first 1966 01:28:40,860 --> 01:28:36,130 unlike me or or anyone else out there 1967 01:28:42,690 --> 01:28:40,870 you know us Joe Schmoe so to speak you 1968 01:28:45,630 --> 01:28:42,700 know it's it's hard you know we bring it 1969 01:28:47,670 --> 01:28:45,640 up in a conversation and most people not 1970 01:28:49,950 --> 01:28:47,680 all people these days up I feel more and 1971 01:28:54,180 --> 01:28:49,960 more comfortable with it all the time 1972 01:28:56,490 --> 01:28:54,190 you know but most people we a scientist 1973 01:28:58,560 --> 01:28:56,500 isn't going to listen to but a scientist 1974 01:29:01,620 --> 01:28:58,570 to a scientist you know they pay more 1975 01:29:04,440 --> 01:29:01,630 attention for sure I think right I think 1976 01:29:06,930 --> 01:29:04,450 that yeah there's a there's a bit of a 1977 01:29:10,950 --> 01:29:06,940 difference we speak the same language we 1978 01:29:13,290 --> 01:29:10,960 know we have a better sense of what 1979 01:29:18,050 --> 01:29:13,300 information is relevant and what's not 1980 01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:18,060 relevant we have a better sense of what 1981 01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:20,170 what's believable and what's not 1982 01:29:25,850 --> 01:29:23,170 believable we're we're you know we're 1983 01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:25,860 trained not to jump to conclusions and 1984 01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:28,330 which I think a lot of people are prone 1985 01:29:35,820 --> 01:29:32,410 to do right you you get you talking to 1986 01:29:37,140 --> 01:29:35,830 people just casually you know before you 1987 01:29:39,450 --> 01:29:37,150 know it there's all sorts of theories 1988 01:29:42,810 --> 01:29:39,460 popping up that oh I think it's this and 1989 01:29:45,450 --> 01:29:42,820 this and this and you know you know I 1990 01:29:47,550 --> 01:29:45,460 think it's you know dog men and Bigfoot 1991 01:29:51,060 --> 01:29:47,560 and you know coming out of spacecraft 1992 01:29:54,830 --> 01:29:51,070 and oh well wait a minute let's pack up 1993 01:29:58,050 --> 01:29:54,840 here do we have do we have actual data 1994 01:30:00,830 --> 01:29:58,060 information you know and so is a 1995 01:30:05,510 --> 01:30:00,840 scientist it's easier to do that and to 1996 01:30:10,290 --> 01:30:08,370 what can i what can I prove you know 1997 01:30:12,810 --> 01:30:10,300 based on the data that I have and that's 1998 01:30:14,700 --> 01:30:12,820 and that's basically why I wrote this 1999 01:30:16,410 --> 01:30:14,710 paper I realize that well we have enough 2000 01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:16,420 information here we can actually 2001 01:30:21,420 --> 01:30:18,880 estimate some of these accelerations and 2002 01:30:23,610 --> 01:30:21,430 speeds and that would be an important 2003 01:30:25,770 --> 01:30:23,620 first in understanding what these things 2004 01:30:29,070 --> 01:30:25,780 are and how they're moving and and allow 2005 01:30:30,780 --> 01:30:29,080 us to rule out some hypotheses you know 2006 01:30:34,290 --> 01:30:30,790 it's not a seat it's not a seagull 2007 01:30:36,210 --> 01:30:34,300 accelerating at 5,000 G right somebody 2008 01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:36,220 actually asked me once do you think it 2009 01:30:42,330 --> 01:30:39,760 could be a highly reflective seco and as 2010 01:30:44,379 --> 01:30:42,340 a birdwatcher myself I had almost 2011 01:30:46,719 --> 01:30:44,389 exploded I was like 2012 01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:46,729 is no such thing you think that's more 2013 01:30:53,020 --> 01:30:49,489 probable than aliens or anything else 2014 01:30:54,819 --> 01:30:53,030 that's crazy but no it's not it's not a 2015 01:30:57,909 --> 01:30:54,829 highly reflective Seiko we know that 2016 01:30:59,649 --> 01:30:57,919 they can't they can't be anything we 2017 01:31:04,179 --> 01:30:59,659 could break and rule out some of these 2018 01:31:06,189 --> 01:31:04,189 things at this point right so the lines 2019 01:31:08,649 --> 01:31:06,199 are open now for anyone out there that 2020 01:31:13,149 --> 01:31:08,659 would like to call in that's 85kg r8 2021 01:31:17,229 --> 01:31:13,159 live or eight five five four seven two 2022 01:31:21,449 --> 01:31:17,239 five four eight three we have Steve from 2023 01:31:26,879 --> 01:31:21,459 Las Vegas Steve welcome to the show 2024 01:31:32,469 --> 01:31:30,580 questions may be I'm so intrigued and 2025 01:31:35,109 --> 01:31:32,479 interested in what you're talking about 2026 01:31:38,049 --> 01:31:35,119 here and I'm thinking to myself why are 2027 01:31:40,500 --> 01:31:38,059 you talking physics and is this science 2028 01:31:42,939 --> 01:31:40,510 that you're bringing in to you about 2029 01:31:46,270 --> 01:31:42,949 because we need more scientists to look 2030 01:31:50,489 --> 01:31:46,280 into it like that Stan Freeman said and 2031 01:31:53,679 --> 01:31:50,499 oh some of your friends there other 2032 01:31:57,459 --> 01:31:53,689 physicists looking into it and a green 2033 01:31:58,929 --> 01:31:57,469 with your philanthropy yeah so this is 2034 01:32:00,609 --> 01:31:58,939 basically I'm trying to study these 2035 01:32:01,899 --> 01:32:00,619 things scientifically I want to know 2036 01:32:04,750 --> 01:32:01,909 what they are I want to know how they 2037 01:32:07,989 --> 01:32:04,760 work and I want to know the details and 2038 01:32:09,669 --> 01:32:07,999 so that's what I'm trying to do I have a 2039 01:32:11,469 --> 01:32:09,679 number of colleagues who are also 2040 01:32:14,199 --> 01:32:11,479 interested in studying things and where 2041 01:32:17,589 --> 01:32:14,209 these things that we're trying to do our 2042 01:32:22,659 --> 01:32:17,599 best to we're trying to figure out how 2043 01:32:25,270 --> 01:32:22,669 to collect data that's the important job 2044 01:32:29,919 --> 01:32:25,280 right now is to collect our own data to 2045 01:32:31,899 --> 01:32:29,929 use better instrumentation and and see 2046 01:32:36,310 --> 01:32:31,909 what we can what we can actually learn 2047 01:32:39,969 --> 01:32:36,320 about these things okay and my second 2048 01:32:44,819 --> 01:32:39,979 question is I collect footage of UFOs I 2049 01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:47,139 it's I think of them as the same thing 2050 01:32:52,209 --> 01:32:50,449 anyway as well and most of the footage 2051 01:32:56,930 --> 01:32:52,219 that I've been collecting even up to now 2052 01:33:01,120 --> 01:32:56,940 I would say about 60% orbs that seem to 2053 01:33:03,709 --> 01:33:01,130 appear disappear and move around and 2054 01:33:07,130 --> 01:33:03,719 patterns that just unbelievable 2055 01:33:08,959 --> 01:33:07,140 my quicken is to me I've got to figure 2056 01:33:11,810 --> 01:33:08,969 it out well I seem that good 2057 01:33:15,860 --> 01:33:11,820 intelligence these orbs and light is 2058 01:33:20,990 --> 01:33:15,870 energy is what it could be behind can he 2059 01:33:23,560 --> 01:33:21,000 be some kind of intelligence like that's 2060 01:33:26,740 --> 01:33:23,570 hard that's hard for me to imagine that 2061 01:33:34,430 --> 01:33:26,750 you could have might be intelligent see 2062 01:33:36,410 --> 01:33:34,440 it's and as to the nature of these orbs 2063 01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:36,420 I'm not I can't really speak to that 2064 01:33:42,250 --> 01:33:40,050 having not seen them myself or or had 2065 01:33:45,410 --> 01:33:42,260 footage that I could really do anything 2066 01:33:48,340 --> 01:33:45,420 you know with in terms of image analysis 2067 01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:48,350 so that's a difficult question 2068 01:33:53,510 --> 01:33:51,330 intelligence the way I think about it if 2069 01:33:55,790 --> 01:33:53,520 you're you know when intelligent things 2070 01:33:57,560 --> 01:33:55,800 basically create models of the world 2071 01:34:02,090 --> 01:33:57,570 around them so that they can interact 2072 01:34:05,270 --> 01:34:02,100 with the world around them and so you 2073 01:34:07,370 --> 01:34:05,280 basically if you're an intelligent being 2074 01:34:10,450 --> 01:34:07,380 or object then you have to be able to 2075 01:34:15,140 --> 01:34:10,460 create such models and I don't see how 2076 01:34:16,790 --> 01:34:15,150 light could just do that light basically 2077 01:34:18,890 --> 01:34:16,800 you've got photons they travel from 2078 01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:18,900 point A to point B and can absorb 2079 01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:21,090 somewhere so you it's hard to imagine 2080 01:34:26,900 --> 01:34:24,210 how how to have an intelligence that's 2081 01:34:29,300 --> 01:34:26,910 just basically made of light so it's 2082 01:34:32,740 --> 01:34:29,310 hard for me to imagine but that doesn't 2083 01:34:34,790 --> 01:34:32,750 you know it sounds like these you know a 2084 01:34:36,350 --> 01:34:34,800 lot of these things would need to be 2085 01:34:38,950 --> 01:34:36,360 studied more carefully to be able to 2086 01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:38,960 identify what they are we have calls 2087 01:34:46,510 --> 01:34:42,210 backing out here so Steve yeah thank you 2088 01:34:49,340 --> 01:34:46,520 thanks for the call all right all right 2089 01:34:52,100 --> 01:34:49,350 look who we have here we have Dave 2090 01:34:54,100 --> 01:34:52,110 Altman calling probably from Florida you 2091 01:34:59,060 --> 01:34:54,110 there these days 2092 01:35:06,200 --> 01:34:59,070 yes I'm here in the sunny actually rainy 2093 01:35:06,830 --> 01:35:06,210 miserable Florida you know the guest yes 2094 01:35:10,430 --> 01:35:06,840 I do 2095 01:35:13,070 --> 01:35:10,440 we are both members of the you APX 2096 01:35:22,150 --> 01:35:13,080 addition group oh you're involved in 2097 01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:25,760 that's exactly why I called and I also 2098 01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:27,810 just wanted to let everybody know that 2099 01:35:35,500 --> 01:35:31,650 the website has gone live it's not done 2100 01:35:42,770 --> 01:35:35,510 but it is live and it is you ap 2101 01:35:44,060 --> 01:35:42,780 expedition org that is the website off 2102 01:35:45,860 --> 01:35:44,070 the phone why don't you go ahead and 2103 01:35:49,729 --> 01:35:45,870 send me that link and I'll put that in 2104 01:35:51,979 --> 01:35:49,739 the show notes for everyone but yeah I 2105 01:35:53,660 --> 01:35:51,989 did I did post it in the chat room but 2106 01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:53,670 I'll send it to you as well you know 2107 01:35:59,750 --> 01:35:56,090 this way you have your show notes and 2108 01:36:01,760 --> 01:35:59,760 also just wanted to remind Kevin that 2109 01:36:05,330 --> 01:36:01,770 we're all going to be at contact in the 2110 01:36:08,030 --> 01:36:05,340 deserts at the end of May beginning of 2111 01:36:12,500 --> 01:36:08,040 June that's right that's right and I'm 2112 01:36:16,490 --> 01:36:12,510 slated to go there too so that will be 2113 01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:16,500 great to meet everyone there yeah we'll 2114 01:36:20,770 --> 01:36:18,930 all be able to have a little powwow and 2115 01:36:23,780 --> 01:36:20,780 get to know each other in person 2116 01:36:25,250 --> 01:36:23,790 excellent that'd be great well hey Dave 2117 01:36:29,990 --> 01:36:25,260 thanks so much we got a bunch of calls 2118 01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:30,000 backed up here so all right and so 2119 01:36:33,229 --> 01:36:31,890 everyone look for that link in the show 2120 01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:33,239 notes and I'll have that 2121 01:36:39,470 --> 01:36:36,930 I'll have that open next we have a nice 2122 01:36:41,540 --> 01:36:39,480 ear a is on the line here too but we 2123 01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:41,550 have Andy calling from Connecticut he's 2124 01:36:45,770 --> 01:36:44,250 the one who saved of the show while ago 2125 01:36:51,970 --> 01:36:45,780 when I had to have a listener show and 2126 01:36:57,530 --> 01:36:54,650 welcome to the show you have a question 2127 01:37:00,500 --> 01:36:57,540 for our guest Kevin yeah I have one 2128 01:37:03,290 --> 01:37:00,510 quick question ask and then I'll get off 2129 01:37:04,700 --> 01:37:03,300 the phone um and I apologize if you 2130 01:37:07,100 --> 01:37:04,710 might have touched on this earlier I 2131 01:37:09,170 --> 01:37:07,110 didn't hear the whole show but my 2132 01:37:12,590 --> 01:37:09,180 question is what are Kevin's thoughts on 2133 01:37:15,890 --> 01:37:12,600 the concept or theory it is gaining 2134 01:37:19,550 --> 01:37:15,900 popularity with some physicists that 2135 01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:19,560 gravity is actually what we experience 2136 01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:22,290 is is a distortion in the fabric of 2137 01:37:28,910 --> 01:37:24,449 space-time created 2138 01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:28,920 the Earth's own mass and there are some 2139 01:37:33,470 --> 01:37:30,449 analogies out there like bowling balls 2140 01:37:35,330 --> 01:37:33,480 on trampolines with marbles trying to go 2141 01:37:40,070 --> 01:37:35,340 by and they can't go by they get sucked 2142 01:37:42,290 --> 01:37:40,080 into that distortion that you know you 2143 01:37:44,510 --> 01:37:42,300 know depression created does he think 2144 01:37:47,959 --> 01:37:44,520 that that's that's probably valid that's 2145 01:37:49,580 --> 01:37:47,969 that's what gravity is and I'll take 2146 01:37:52,370 --> 01:37:49,590 your question up here good show guys 2147 01:37:57,080 --> 01:37:52,380 thank you thank you Andy thank you Andy 2148 01:37:59,870 --> 01:37:57,090 and no it's a good question I that's 2149 01:38:01,640 --> 01:37:59,880 basically the picture that one kids from 2150 01:38:04,189 --> 01:38:01,650 Albert Einstein's chowder general 2151 01:38:06,700 --> 01:38:04,199 relativity which is a very successful 2152 01:38:10,490 --> 01:38:06,710 theory so I think it's a very good 2153 01:38:14,390 --> 01:38:10,500 description of a good picture of what is 2154 01:38:17,090 --> 01:38:14,400 going on with gravity is there something 2155 01:38:19,310 --> 01:38:17,100 more fundamental might be the question 2156 01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:19,320 you could ask and I think that's 2157 01:38:24,020 --> 01:38:21,090 probably the case and I think that's 2158 01:38:27,229 --> 01:38:24,030 what you know many theoretical 2159 01:38:29,150 --> 01:38:27,239 physicists are trying to understand by 2160 01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:29,160 studying quantum gravity we're trying to 2161 01:38:33,110 --> 01:38:31,530 understand the the the relationship 2162 01:38:36,350 --> 01:38:33,120 between quantum mechanics and gravity 2163 01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:36,360 and at present at present Einstein's 2164 01:38:41,290 --> 01:38:39,210 general theory of relativity doesn't get 2165 01:38:43,820 --> 01:38:41,300 along well with quantum mechanics and so 2166 01:38:45,890 --> 01:38:43,830 so the thinking is that there's probably 2167 01:38:48,140 --> 01:38:45,900 a more fundamental picture that will 2168 01:38:50,930 --> 01:38:48,150 allow us to understand gravity better 2169 01:38:52,729 --> 01:38:50,940 and I think that that's it's an exciting 2170 01:38:54,229 --> 01:38:52,739 area of research yeah speaking of 2171 01:38:57,530 --> 01:38:54,239 exciting I was just thinking of that 2172 01:38:59,840 --> 01:38:57,540 word where it must be exciting to you as 2173 01:39:06,700 --> 01:38:59,850 a physicist to know that you haven't 2174 01:39:10,220 --> 01:39:06,710 discovered everything that is exciting I 2175 01:39:12,380 --> 01:39:10,230 remember when I was in about to go into 2176 01:39:15,229 --> 01:39:12,390 graduate school I have lamented to my 2177 01:39:18,050 --> 01:39:15,239 parents I thought oh my god I really am 2178 01:39:19,580 --> 01:39:18,060 excited to study physics but it's 2179 01:39:22,340 --> 01:39:19,590 horrible all the all the cool things 2180 01:39:24,110 --> 01:39:22,350 have been discovered already and I I'm 2181 01:39:25,729 --> 01:39:24,120 not going to be able to do anything as 2182 01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:25,739 fundamental as you know what Einstein 2183 01:39:31,729 --> 01:39:28,890 did and and I kind of lamented that and 2184 01:39:34,189 --> 01:39:31,739 and it's turned out not to be true which 2185 01:39:36,500 --> 01:39:34,199 is great I've done some theoretical work 2186 01:39:37,859 --> 01:39:36,510 we've got you know I've been able to 2187 01:39:40,409 --> 01:39:37,869 derive 2188 01:39:43,529 --> 01:39:40,419 some of the laws of quantum mechanics 2189 01:39:45,839 --> 01:39:43,539 from simple symmetries and things like 2190 01:39:50,209 --> 01:39:45,849 this so I've gotten to be able to do 2191 01:39:54,929 --> 01:39:50,219 some real foundational physics work that 2192 01:39:57,830 --> 01:39:54,939 that is no interesting so I think it's 2193 01:40:00,929 --> 01:39:57,840 it is it's very exciting it's I wouldn't 2194 01:40:05,459 --> 01:40:00,939 doing anything else for a career boring 2195 01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:05,469 in my mind I'm lucky enough to Sage 2196 01:40:09,989 --> 01:40:07,449 believe it or not that's how I feel 2197 01:40:11,429 --> 01:40:09,999 about the antiques in fine art and 2198 01:40:13,409 --> 01:40:11,439 because there's so much history and 2199 01:40:15,060 --> 01:40:13,419 research and and I love it by the way 2200 01:40:17,609 --> 01:40:15,070 for the listener out there I also do a 2201 01:40:19,379 --> 01:40:17,619 podcast on antiques and fine art called 2202 01:40:25,319 --> 01:40:19,389 the antique auction forum if anyone 2203 01:40:28,889 --> 01:40:25,329 wants to go check that out whenever you 2204 01:40:30,899 --> 01:40:28,899 study anything you can find something 2205 01:40:32,399 --> 01:40:30,909 interesting in it and I've always found 2206 01:40:35,310 --> 01:40:32,409 that to be the case and that's that's 2207 01:40:36,810 --> 01:40:35,320 always great yeah that's right well we 2208 01:40:38,669 --> 01:40:36,820 have we have about five minutes left 2209 01:40:41,250 --> 01:40:38,679 someone's trying to call in but we also 2210 01:40:45,319 --> 01:40:41,260 have ray Stanford on the line from 2211 01:40:48,449 --> 01:40:45,329 Baltimore ray welcome to the show hello 2212 01:40:51,359 --> 01:40:48,459 hey I am thrilled to hear Kevin say that 2213 01:40:53,819 --> 01:40:51,369 he would like to to meet me and and and 2214 01:40:57,089 --> 01:40:53,829 I hope he would like to visit down here 2215 01:40:59,489 --> 01:40:57,099 in in the NASA and goddard territory 2216 01:41:00,619 --> 01:40:59,499 I would love to it's such a pleasure to 2217 01:41:03,330 --> 01:41:00,629 meet you 2218 01:41:05,879 --> 01:41:03,340 there's a tremendous amount that is that 2219 01:41:07,889 --> 01:41:05,889 I want to share with you and I'm 2220 01:41:10,199 --> 01:41:07,899 delighted to hear you say that 2221 01:41:13,529 --> 01:41:10,209 look it's not more pawing over old 2222 01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:13,539 reports that we need we need hard data 2223 01:41:19,049 --> 01:41:16,570 we need instruments out there and what I 2224 01:41:21,779 --> 01:41:19,059 want to share with you is that class of 2225 01:41:24,659 --> 01:41:21,789 data in a way that I think you will be 2226 01:41:26,759 --> 01:41:24,669 delighted and I wouldn't invite anybody 2227 01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:26,769 to fly in here in planes these days with 2228 01:41:30,779 --> 01:41:28,570 the virus going around but if you're in 2229 01:41:35,399 --> 01:41:30,789 New York you could drive that drive down 2230 01:41:37,949 --> 01:41:35,409 oh that's true yes certainly yeah I 2231 01:41:40,169 --> 01:41:37,959 would very much love to I would be very 2232 01:41:43,879 --> 01:41:40,179 interested in hearing about I know that 2233 01:41:48,060 --> 01:41:43,889 you have an interesting collection of of 2234 01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:48,070 you ApS or UFOs and my photographs and I 2235 01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:50,050 also would be very interested in the 2236 01:41:53,370 --> 01:41:51,370 paleontology too so it's 2237 01:41:55,530 --> 01:41:53,380 exciting I've never I've been I've been 2238 01:41:58,170 --> 01:41:55,540 I've visited ray I don't know what was 2239 01:42:00,420 --> 01:41:58,180 that three or four years ago ray when I 2240 01:42:01,980 --> 01:42:00,430 was down there ran I have years ago yeah 2241 01:42:04,140 --> 01:42:01,990 yeah when I was down there and I gotta 2242 01:42:07,140 --> 01:42:04,150 tell you I've never now I go into a lot 2243 01:42:09,300 --> 01:42:07,150 of houses with amazing collections of 2244 01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:09,310 all kinds you know mostly art stuff like 2245 01:42:13,770 --> 01:42:11,170 that I've never seen a collection like 2246 01:42:15,990 --> 01:42:13,780 Gray has his family 2247 01:42:18,450 --> 01:42:16,000 meteorites pray out hope you don't mind 2248 01:42:22,350 --> 01:42:18,460 me saying that but you just have some 2249 01:42:26,190 --> 01:42:22,360 fascinating things yes and we'd love to 2250 01:42:28,110 --> 01:42:26,200 show these to Kevin and Kevin also I 2251 01:42:29,730 --> 01:42:28,120 want to say that if you can give 2252 01:42:31,890 --> 01:42:29,740 yourself enough time down here I would 2253 01:42:44,640 --> 01:42:31,900 also be happy to take you on a dinosaur 2254 01:42:47,340 --> 01:42:44,650 tracking trip and of course not in the 2255 01:42:49,410 --> 01:42:47,350 park itself but we had collected some 2256 01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:49,420 fossils so I have an orient skull that I 2257 01:42:55,320 --> 01:42:52,330 had found and restored as as well as a 2258 01:42:59,660 --> 01:42:55,330 tortoise and so I have my own little 2259 01:43:02,910 --> 01:42:59,670 collection but that's very exciting well 2260 01:43:04,740 --> 01:43:02,920 I would just like to ask Martin to pass 2261 01:43:08,100 --> 01:43:04,750 on to me the best email address to send 2262 01:43:09,900 --> 01:43:08,110 you I'll send you some some material and 2263 01:43:12,450 --> 01:43:09,910 and links that you'll find them really 2264 01:43:14,610 --> 01:43:12,460 exciting about both sides of this the 2265 01:43:18,480 --> 01:43:14,620 objects yes I prefer objects to instead 2266 01:43:20,100 --> 01:43:18,490 of phenomena and into logical side I 2267 01:43:22,290 --> 01:43:20,110 don't want to hold anybody else up from 2268 01:43:24,150 --> 01:43:22,300 calling in but thank you for your 2269 01:43:26,280 --> 01:43:24,160 interest and and do please plan on 2270 01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:26,290 coming and see me and I'll give you the 2271 01:43:30,300 --> 01:43:28,330 contact information and we would welcome 2272 01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:30,310 you here any amount of time you want to 2273 01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:32,530 stay okay well thank you so much that's 2274 01:43:38,490 --> 01:43:35,050 very kind of you hey ray just just for a 2275 01:43:42,450 --> 01:43:38,500 we have two minutes left basically but 2276 01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:42,460 ray weren't you involved in well at 2277 01:43:49,830 --> 01:43:46,800 least thinking about some type of craft 2278 01:43:52,140 --> 01:43:49,840 propulsion that had a beam ahead or am I 2279 01:43:56,820 --> 01:43:52,150 am I getting that wrong ray that is 2280 01:43:59,490 --> 01:43:56,830 correct yes October 5 1985 a lot of us 2281 01:44:01,320 --> 01:43:59,500 witnessed and I filmed in Corpus Christi 2282 01:44:03,990 --> 01:44:01,330 on the bay front in broad daylight 2283 01:44:04,830 --> 01:44:04,000 beautiful film of four different objects 2284 01:44:07,049 --> 01:44:04,840 that 2285 01:44:08,609 --> 01:44:07,059 we're dis shape with a dome but they had 2286 01:44:11,609 --> 01:44:08,619 a structure on the other side that 2287 01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:11,619 projected a very narrow collimated beam 2288 01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:15,250 out about 30 diameters ahead of it and i 2289 01:44:20,399 --> 01:44:18,610 will show you from this movie I'll show 2290 01:44:22,100 --> 01:44:20,409 the frames and then I'll show you the 2291 01:44:25,229 --> 01:44:22,110 image process with false-color 2292 01:44:27,839 --> 01:44:25,239 contouring and you will see like in a 2293 01:44:30,750 --> 01:44:27,849 slur and view you will see the actual 2294 01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:30,760 patterns of the plasma being generated 2295 01:44:34,290 --> 01:44:32,770 in front and pulled around the optic and 2296 01:44:36,899 --> 01:44:34,300 squeezed in and back as if it were a 2297 01:44:38,250 --> 01:44:36,909 smaller and you will be as a as a 2298 01:44:40,819 --> 01:44:38,260 scientist I think you'll be delighted 2299 01:44:44,669 --> 01:44:40,829 what you see wow that sounds interesting 2300 01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:44,679 yeah and so much more I mean people from 2301 01:44:48,569 --> 01:44:46,570 Godard is that have actually gone over 2302 01:44:49,799 --> 01:44:48,579 to Ray's house and looked at some things 2303 01:44:52,649 --> 01:44:49,809 of which I think is great 2304 01:44:54,689 --> 01:44:52,659 a ray I really am so glad you called in 2305 01:44:59,310 --> 01:44:54,699 and I will make the connection of you 2306 01:45:04,229 --> 01:44:59,320 too thanks I appreciate it thank you so 2307 01:45:07,229 --> 01:45:04,239 much okay have a good night ray 2308 01:45:08,669 --> 01:45:07,239 so we just have one minute left if 2309 01:45:11,220 --> 01:45:08,679 someone wanted to reach out with you I 2310 01:45:13,140 --> 01:45:11,230 saw that you are you have a link where 2311 01:45:15,779 --> 01:45:13,150 we have in the show notes too it's 2312 01:45:17,279 --> 01:45:15,789 actually to the University do you have 2313 01:45:20,729 --> 01:45:17,289 any problem with people getting in touch 2314 01:45:24,299 --> 01:45:20,739 with you no that's fine I'm a professor 2315 01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:24,309 and people can email me questions 2316 01:45:29,790 --> 01:45:27,250 anytime they want that's fine yep okay 2317 01:45:32,459 --> 01:45:29,800 excellent well and you don't have a 2318 01:45:34,859 --> 01:45:32,469 website though right I do have a website 2319 01:45:38,569 --> 01:45:34,869 oh okay I'm sorry I didn't link that go 2320 01:45:41,189 --> 01:45:38,579 ahead what is that actually true 2321 01:45:44,700 --> 01:45:41,199 websites are transitioning right now so 2322 01:45:47,010 --> 01:45:44,710 I've got a new website that I put up and 2323 01:45:52,290 --> 01:45:47,020 I have to fix it a bit but it's Knuth 2324 01:45:55,140 --> 01:45:52,300 lab org okay and do a little bit of work 2325 01:45:57,029 --> 01:45:55,150 on it to get it right now it just has 2326 01:45:58,770 --> 01:45:57,039 got new hosts so that's not the whole 2327 01:46:00,359 --> 01:45:58,780 thing so I've got to put a little file 2328 01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:00,369 in and they'll have that fixed by 2329 01:46:03,750 --> 01:46:02,530 tonight all right Kevin thanks so much 2330 01:46:05,430 --> 01:46:03,760 we're totally out of time 2331 01:46:07,620 --> 01:46:05,440 I really appreciate it it's been a real 2332 01:46:09,779 --> 01:46:07,630 pleasure tonight oh thank you so much 2333 01:46:11,850 --> 01:46:09,789 for having me all right okay everyone 2334 01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:11,860 that's it for the show and I want to 2335 01:46:16,799 --> 01:46:14,530 thank you all for listening and we'll be 2336 01:46:18,629 --> 01:46:16,809 back next week with a listener show 2337 01:46:19,949 --> 01:46:18,639 I hope all listeners 2338 01:46:21,810 --> 01:46:19,959 we'll make an attempt to call in I'd 2339 01:46:27,900 --> 01:46:21,820 love to talk to you and remember 2340 01:46:27,910 --> 01:46:42,240 [Music]